Gentlemen -

     The subject line says it all.  I've just started looking
     around for a 68k-ish creature with some PIC-like features
     that might have popped up recently.  Has anyone here seen
     this beast?  Where?

     2Penny (my 2 cents worth)

On Sep 5, 1:47=A0pm, 2Penny <lw_rog...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> =A0 =A0 =A0Gentlemen -
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0The subject line says it all. =A0I've just started looking
> =A0 =A0 =A0around for a 68k-ish creature with some PIC-like features
> =A0 =A0 =A0that might have popped up recently. =A0Has anyone here seen
> =A0 =A0 =A0this beast? =A0Where?
>
> =A0 =A0 =A02Penny (my 2 cents worth)

Well not sure what PIC-like features means, but if you are after
a tiny MCU with a reasonably powerful 68k (50 MHz), have a
look at the coldfire line, the MCF51QE (IIRC the name) is
available and there are another few similar ones promised.

Didi

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On Sep 5, 6:47=A0am, 2Penny <lw_rog...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> =A0 =A0 =A0The subject line says it all. =A0I've just started looking
> =A0 =A0 =A0around for a 68k-ish creature with some PIC-like features
> =A0 =A0 =A0that might have popped up recently. =A0Has anyone here seen

It's called ColdFire now. Look at Freescale's website for all the data
you could hope to get - there are plenty of CF parts with on-chip
flash and RAM and all of them have embedded debug (JTAG).

I can give you gratis an EVB with a ColdFire micro on it, asking only
that you pay shipping. The particular part in question (MCF51JM128)
has I think 128K flash, 16K RAM and on-chip USB.

However, if the answer is 68k then the question may have been asked
wrong; 68K/CF is more or less an obsolescent architecture these days.
The impression I have from Freescale's literature is that CF exists
only to provide a somewhat source-leve upward migration path from
68HC09 8-bit apps, without the cost [to Freescale] of an ARM license.

On Sep 5, 4:16=A0pm, larwe <zwsdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ....
> The impression I have from Freescale's literature is that CF exists
> only to provide a somewhat source-leve upward migration path from
> 68HC09 8-bit apps, without the cost [to Freescale] of an ARM license.

Hey, that 09 (apparently you meant 08) typo can bring memories
to some here (like myself, having grown up on a 6809 CPU, which
has been dead for 20 years now).

The CF line - especially the tiny ones you refer to - is good enough
on its own, I don't see it having anything to do with ARM. And the
parts - debug interface included - are 100% documented (don't know
how this is for ARM). Unlike ARM, programming CF in 68k assembly
is quite practical - which is a huge difference (for those who
can take advantage of it, admittedly not many).

Didi

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Original message: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded/msg/d36=
5366d1a7f3b49?dmode=3Dsource

     Ladies,Gentlemen -

     I knew something about Coldfire, but didn't know it had
     JTAG interface.  Yes, I've done ASM programming and fully
     intend to use it again.

     Now about assemblers ...

     OK, the part lines up nicely enough, but where's the
     assembler from and at what cost?

     2Penny




Didi wrote:
> On Sep 5, 4:16 pm, larwe <zwsdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ....
>> The impression I have from Freescale's literature is that CF exists
>> only to provide a somewhat source-leve upward migration path from
>> 68HC09 8-bit apps, without the cost [to Freescale] of an ARM license.
> 
> Hey, that 09 (apparently you meant 08) typo can bring memories
> to some here (like myself, having grown up on a 6809 CPU, which
> has been dead for 20 years now).
> 
> The CF line - especially the tiny ones you refer to - is good enough
> on its own, I don't see it having anything to do with ARM. And the
> parts - debug interface included - are 100% documented (don't know
> how this is for ARM). Unlike ARM, programming CF in 68k assembly
> is quite practical - which is a huge difference (for those who
> can take advantage of it, admittedly not many).
> 
> Didi
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Dimiter Popoff               Transgalactic Instruments
> 
> http://www.tgi-sci.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/sets/72157600228621276/
> 
> Original message: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded/msg/d365366d1a7f3b49?dmode=source
> 
> 
> 
> 

On Sep 5, 4:55=A0pm, 2Penny <lw_rog...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> ....
> =A0 =A0 =A0I knew something about Coldfire, but didn't know it had
> =A0 =A0 =A0JTAG interface. =A0Yes, I've done ASM programming and fully
> =A0 =A0 =A0intend to use it again.

Ouch, I think they have no JTAG - just a so called "1 wire debug
interface" or something. It is documented but I have not dealt
with it yet, including these parts in my toolchain is only on
my TBD list...
This pretty much means no boundary scan, I believe (again, not
sure what can be done over the debug interface).

> =A0 =A0 =A0Now about assemblers ...
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0OK, the part lines up nicely enough, but where's the
> =A0 =A0 =A0assembler from and at what cost?

I can't help here since I use my own, DPS based toolchain
which is not available for any popular hardware platform.
Since you know 68k ASM I suppose you will either know you
have to stay away from the weird GNU 68k syntax or be used
to it and just use it... :-).

Didi

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Original message: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded/msg/75d=
8be2275ea72aa?dmode=3Dsource




>
> =A0 =A0 =A02Penny
>
> Didi wrote:
> > On Sep 5, 4:16 pm, larwe <zwsdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> ....
> >> The impression I have from Freescale's literature is that CF exists
> >> only to provide a somewhat source-leve upward migration path from
> >> 68HC09 8-bit apps, without the cost [to Freescale] of an ARM license.
>
> > Hey, that 09 (apparently you meant 08) typo can bring memories
> > to some here (like myself, having grown up on a 6809 CPU, which
> > has been dead for 20 years now).
>
> > The CF line - especially the tiny ones you refer to - is good enough
> > on its own, I don't see it having anything to do with ARM. And the
> > parts - debug interface included - are 100% documented (don't know
> > how this is for ARM). Unlike ARM, programming CF in 68k assembly
> > is quite practical - which is a huge difference (for those who
> > can take advantage of it, admittedly not many).
>
> > Didi
>
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Dimiter Popoff =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Transgalactic Instruments
>
> >http://www.tgi-sci.com
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/sets/72157600228621276/
>
> > Original message:http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded/msg/=
d365366d1a7f3b4...
>
>

2Penny wrote:
> 
>     Ladies,Gentlemen -
> 

You don't need to address the group so formally - but you *do* need to 
learn to post correctly (quote properly without extra indents, and don't 
top-post).

>     I knew something about Coldfire, but didn't know it had
>     JTAG interface.  Yes, I've done ASM programming and fully
>     intend to use it again.
> 

The Coldfires do not have a JTAG interface (some do, but it's not for 
debugging).  They have a BDM interface which is a Freescale-specific 
serial debugging interface.  It does a similar job to JTAG debugger 
interfaces, but is more efficient.

>     Now about assemblers ...
> 
>     OK, the part lines up nicely enough, but where's the
>     assembler from and at what cost?
> 

Get the gcc toolchain from www.codesourcery.com.  This includes the gnu 
assembler and linker, gcc C and C++ compilers, a library, and other 
tools.  You can get the completely free version (free as in beer and 
free as in speech), or pay for a supported version with integrated 
Eclipse and some extra utilities.

An alternative would be Code Warrior from Freescale, which is free for a 
limited code size.

larwe wrote:
> On Sep 5, 6:47 am, 2Penny <lw_rog...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
>>      The subject line says it all.  I've just started looking
>>      around for a 68k-ish creature with some PIC-like features
>>      that might have popped up recently.  Has anyone here seen
> 
> It's called ColdFire now. Look at Freescale's website for all the data
> you could hope to get - there are plenty of CF parts with on-chip
> flash and RAM and all of them have embedded debug (JTAG).
> 
> I can give you gratis an EVB with a ColdFire micro on it, asking only
> that you pay shipping. The particular part in question (MCF51JM128)
> has I think 128K flash, 16K RAM and on-chip USB.
> 
> However, if the answer is 68k then the question may have been asked
> wrong; 68K/CF is more or less an obsolescent architecture these days.
> The impression I have from Freescale's literature is that CF exists
> only to provide a somewhat source-leve upward migration path from
> 68HC09 8-bit apps, without the cost [to Freescale] of an ARM license.

That may be the impression *you* have got of the ColdFire, but it is 
totally at odds with reality.  The ColdFire is very much a major 32-bit 
processor architecture with devices ranging from tiny low-power with 
integrated memories to superscaler devices at several hundred MHz. 
Freescale have a couple of dozen devices available, with new ones coming 
out all the time.  The cores are also available for license - I read 
somewhere (but haven't confirmed) that there are more ColdFire cores in 
ASICs than in all of Freescale's MCF device range put together.

The ColdFire core bears no resemblance to the 8-bit Freescale cores - 
perhaps you are thinking only of the ColdFire v1 cores that are 
available in the same package and with the same peripherals as a range 
of 68S08 devices (the idea being that you can easily move between 
cheaper and lower power 8-bit cores and faster 32-bit cores).

I don't know that many people would describe the ColdFire as "PIC-like", 
however.  When you mention "PIC", experienced embedded developers tend 
to think of nice peripherals and a horrendously ugly core, while people 
who know the ColdFire core think of it as one of the most elegant 
designs available (and with good peripherals too).

On Sep 5, 10:41=A0am, David Brown <da...@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>
wrote:

> That may be the impression *you* have got of the ColdFire, but it is
> totally at odds with reality. =A0The ColdFire is very much a major 32-bit

Mere availability of a wide range of devices is an orthogonal issue to
the matter of obsolescence. ColdFire is used, yes, but (if you buy the
reports) it's experiencing a shrinking number of design wins.
Freescale as a whole isn't doing amazingly well these days, FTM.

> processor architecture with devices ranging from tiny low-power with
> integrated memories to superscaler devices at several hundred MHz.

... exactly like the popular cores, viz. ARM and MIPS. ColdFire
occupies the same space for Freescale that AVR32 does for Atmel (and
most of the other silicon vendors have their own proprietary 32-bit
cores, too - NEC, ST, ...). They're generally available but not really
what one would call mainstream.

> The ColdFire core bears no resemblance to the 8-bit Freescale cores -
> perhaps you are thinking only of the ColdFire v1 cores that are
> available in the same package and with the same peripherals as a range
> of 68S08 devices (the idea being that you can easily move between

Yes, that's what I meant. Wasn't implying any architectural similarity
between the cores, I was talking about the migration path Freescale
touts.

On Sep 5, 6:06=A0pm, larwe <zwsdot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> Mere availability of a wide range of devices is an orthogonal issue to
> the matter of obsolescence. ColdFire is used, yes, but (if you buy the
> reports) it's experiencing a shrinking number of design wins.

Coldfire appeared after Motorola had closed the 68k line at 68060;
to me it looks like extending the life of the 68k architecure which
was so much ahead of its time that it is still hard to scrap.
They wanted to replace it with the PPC - which is still by far the
most advanced architecture on the market today - but 15+ years on
this has yet to be 100% completed...
 Much of the reason - perhaps not quite recognized -  is the fact that
68k assembly is an extremely efficient language. Extending that
into VPA has made me even more efficient on PPC platforms, however
this is not (perhaps yet) available for a wider audience.
And using a 68k using C is more or less pointless, there is no
advantage to have with that - just use PPC or ARM or whatever.

> ColdFire
> occupies the same space for Freescale that AVR32 does for Atmel (and
> most of the other silicon vendors have their own proprietary 32-bit
> cores, too - NEC, ST, ...).

The tiny coldfires compete for the lowest power market segment, only
the 430 is in that category. And CF has that true 68K style IRQ
priority scheme, none of the rest have it (and very few poeople
know what to do with it, of course).

Didi

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Original message: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded/msg/099=
e03964b6fab96?dmode=3Dsource