12F675 | 16F628 | 16F84 | 16f877 | 16F877A | 16F88 | 18F458 | ADC | AVR | Bootloader | CAN | CCS | CRC | EAGLE | EEPROM | ICD | ICSP | IDE | JDM | LED | Macros | Microchip | MPLAB | PCB-CAD | PIC10F | Pic12f675 | PIC16F84 | PIC16F84A | PIC16F877 | PIC18 | PIC18F452 | PicBasic | PICC | PICSTART | PWM | RS-485 | RS232 | SMT | SPI | UART | USART | USB | Wireless | Wisp628 | Xilinx

With your help in my work on a microcontroller-based SWR/wattmeter
I've been working on on my own, I've learned so much about
microcontrollers despite the fact that I never used microcontrollers
in school or on the job. I now also have a good understanding of
Assembly language despite the fact that I had no background or
experience (not even informal) with it prior to discovering the world
of PIC microcontrollers.

I'd like to hear from those of you who work with microcontrollers on
the job. (I know that Microchip isn't the only vendor, but my
experience with the Microchip microcontrollers should be of immense
value in learning to work with other brands.) I am currently
conducting a job search, and I'm interested in an electrical
engineering position that has a heavy emphasis on
microcontroller-based circuits. I believe that such jobs are usually
called "firmware engineer" or "embedded engineer". Are there any
other terms?

What industries do you work in? What industries hire
embedded/firmware engineers? (Given how many devices there are that
use microcontrollers, I believe a wide variety of industries hire
embedded/firmware engineers.)

Are there any particular organizations dedicated to microcontrollers?
So far, I have yet to hear of any. IEEE is for electrical
engineering in general, and none of the societies is dedicated to
microcontrollers.

What are the best publications for firmware engineers, embedded
engineers, and engineers who work with microcontrollers?
------------------------------------

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(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

--- In p...@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Hsu" wrote:
> I'd like to hear from those of you who work with microcontrollers on
> the job. (I know that Microchip isn't the only vendor, but my
> experience with the Microchip microcontrollers should be of immense
> value in learning to work with other brands.) I am currently
> conducting a job search, and I'm interested in an electrical
> engineering position that has a heavy emphasis on
> microcontroller-based circuits. I believe that such jobs are usually
> called "firmware engineer" or "embedded engineer". Are there any
> other terms?

Also just it is often just Software Engineer or Embedded Software
Engineer. As you may know, a great majority of these positions use C
/ C++ as their main language, even though most guys use multiple tools
depending on the application.

> What industries do you work in? What industries hire
> embedded/firmware engineers?

Medical equipment and medical devices, for one. I'm in R&D for high
power RF amplifiers that run part of the MRI system.

> What are the best publications for firmware engineers, embedded
> engineers, and engineers who work with microcontrollers?

Embedded Systems Design (embedded.com) is probably the most widely
read. You should be able to get a free subscription to most industry
journals....if you're not full-time employed, you may need a slight
bit of creative writing on their subscription form. Just tell them
that you are in independent consultant and that you specify products
to buy for your clients.

Good luck!
------------------------------------

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I asked myself the same question millions of times and cannot find the solution.....
PIC microcontrollers are ways to have fun...
Not to earn money unless you find the answer......

 
Regards,
Ramy Boghdady

----- Original Message ----
From: Jason Hsu
To: p...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:58:41 AM
Subject: [piclist] OT: microcontroller-related jobs/careers
With your help in my work on a microcontroller- based SWR/wattmeter
I've been working on on my own, I've learned so much about
microcontrollers despite the fact that I never used microcontrollers
in school or on the job. I now also have a good understanding of
Assembly language despite the fact that I had no background or
experience (not even informal) with it prior to discovering the world
of PIC microcontrollers.

I'd like to hear from those of you who work with microcontrollers on
the job. (I know that Microchip isn't the only vendor, but my
experience with the Microchip microcontrollers should be of immense
value in learning to work with other brands.) I am currently
conducting a job search, and I'm interested in an electrical
engineering position that has a heavy emphasis on
microcontroller- based circuits. I believe that such jobs are usually
called "firmware engineer" or "embedded engineer". Are there any
other terms?

What industries do you work in? What industries hire
embedded/firmware engineers? (Given how many devices there are that
use microcontrollers, I believe a wide variety of industries hire
embedded/firmware engineers.)

Are there any particular organizations dedicated to microcontrollers?
So far, I have yet to hear of any. IEEE is for electrical
engineering in general, and none of the societies is dedicated to
microcontrollers.

What are the best publications for firmware engineers, embedded
engineers, and engineers who work with microcontrollers?



(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi,
I think ARM microprocessors and PC104 (industrial PCs) are the main areas of interest in industry. That being said I think an understanding AVR/PIC systems is important in any general job where electronic design is involved, but a good grounding in analogue electronics is also important. The most lucrative area in industry at the moment is VHDL for programmable logic, particularly FPGAs, although it won't be long until the bubble busts for that one to. All that said I have heard there is a demand for embedded system designers, and this does include PICs to some extent, but more often ARM. In this case a knowledge of C programming is important, perhaps even C++. In fact I would say that C coding is more important than assembler, although you still would need the assembler background so you know "what's under the hood". By the way I am in the UK, but I imagine the situation is similar in the US (if that's where you are from).

I was told by a guy from China that in Taiwan, and to some extent Hong Kong, there are allot of one-man-bands, individuals working in their own little workshops developing stuff for big industry. The reason for this is that industry is tending to ease-out people with any real engineering talent, and then suddenly realize they are missing something, and so they get these guys to do these little bits of work. I can see this starting to happen in the West, and so if you want to do this sort of thing you have to be a kind of hands-on consultant. The problem is that you have to build up a reputation, and to do this you will have to go through employment agencies, and these people are pretty crap, as they don't understand many of the professions they are handling.

All in all the situation for creative EEs is pretty grim, you have to enjoy it because you won't be a millionaire from doing this sort of thing. I am a PhD student funded by a government scheme that wants to turn Britain's engineering talent into managers - well I won't say what I think of that, I'll just get what I can from it and leave them with their sad little dream of a useless unproductive nation!

Cheers,

Gavin

ramy wagdy wrote:

I asked myself the same question millions of times and cannot find the solution.....

PIC microcontrollers are ways to have fun...
Not to earn money unless you find the answer......

Regards,
Ramy Boghdady

----- Original Message ----
From: Jason Hsu
To: p...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:58:41 AM
Subject: [piclist] OT: microcontroller-related jobs/careers

With your help in my work on a microcontroller- based SWR/wattmeter
I've been working on on my own, I've learned so much about
microcontrollers despite the fact that I never used microcontrollers
in school or on the job. I now also have a good understanding of
Assembly language despite the fact that I had no background or
experience (not even informal) with it prior to discovering the world
of PIC microcontrollers.

I'd like to hear from those of you who work with microcontrollers on
the job. (I know that Microchip isn't the only vendor, but my
experience with the Microchip microcontrollers should be of immense
value in learning to work with other brands.) I am currently
conducting a job search, and I'm interested in an electrical
engineering position that has a heavy emphasis on
microcontroller- based circuits. I believe that such jobs are usually
called "firmware engineer" or "embedded engineer". Are there any
other terms?

What industries do you work in? What industries hire
embedded/firmware engineers? (Given how many devices there are that
use microcontrollers, I believe a wide variety of industries hire
embedded/firmware engineers.)

Are there any particular organizations dedicated to microcontrollers?
So far, I have yet to hear of any. IEEE is for electrical
engineering in general, and none of the societies is dedicated to
microcontrollers.

What are the best publications for firmware engineers, embedded
engineers, and engineers who work with microcontrollers?

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

It all goes in cycles. The rule of the "beancounters" is starting to come
to an end. With Enron, home mortgage sub-prime scandals and the like
folks are coming to the realization that it takes more that paper to make
money. I make my living by being a PIC guru and embedded expert on many
platforms. You just need to train, pick your goal and go for it.
Education never stops, there is always something new. I leave you with
these thoughts:

"When you're smart, people need you." "Real Genius"
"When you stop learning, you start dying" attrib. to many people
"Progress is made by people who didn't know it wasn't possible" ???

DLC

> Hi,
> I think ARM microprocessors and PC104 (industrial PCs) are the main areas
> of interest in industry. That being said I think an understanding AVR/PIC
> systems is important in any general job where electronic design is
> involved, but a good grounding in analogue electronics is also important.
> The most lucrative area in industry at the moment is VHDL for programmable
> logic, particularly FPGAs, although it won't be long until the bubble
> busts for that one to. All that said I have heard there is a demand for
> embedded system designers, and this does include PICs to some extent, but
> more often ARM. In this case a knowledge of C programming is important,
> perhaps even C++. In fact I would say that C coding is more important than
> assembler, although you still would need the assembler background so you
> know "what's under the hood". By the way I am in the UK, but I imagine the
> situation is similar in the US (if that's where you are from).
>
> I was told by a guy from China that in Taiwan, and to some extent Hong
> Kong, there are allot of one-man-bands, individuals working in their own
> little workshops developing stuff for big industry. The reason for this is
> that industry is tending to ease-out people with any real engineering
> talent, and then suddenly realize they are missing something, and so they
> get these guys to do these little bits of work. I can see this starting to
> happen in the West, and so if you want to do this sort of thing you have
> to be a kind of hands-on consultant. The problem is that you have to build
> up a reputation, and to do this you will have to go through employment
> agencies, and these people are pretty crap, as they don't understand many
> of the professions they are handling.
>
> All in all the situation for creative EEs is pretty grim, you have to
> enjoy it because you won't be a millionaire from doing this sort of
> thing. I am a PhD student funded by a government scheme that wants to turn
> Britain's engineering talent into managers - well I won't say what I think
> of that, I'll just get what I can from it and leave them with their sad
> little dream of a useless unproductive nation!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gavin
>
> ramy wagdy wrote:
>
> I asked myself the same question millions of times and cannot find the
> solution.....
>
> PIC microcontrollers are ways to have fun...
> Not to earn money unless you find the answer......
> Regards,
> Ramy Boghdady
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jason Hsu
> To: p...@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:58:41 AM
> Subject: [piclist] OT: microcontroller-related jobs/careers
>
> With your help in my work on a microcontroller- based SWR/wattmeter
> I've been working on on my own, I've learned so much about
> microcontrollers despite the fact that I never used microcontrollers
> in school or on the job. I now also have a good understanding of
> Assembly language despite the fact that I had no background or
> experience (not even informal) with it prior to discovering the world
> of PIC microcontrollers.
>
> I'd like to hear from those of you who work with microcontrollers on
> the job. (I know that Microchip isn't the only vendor, but my
> experience with the Microchip microcontrollers should be of immense
> value in learning to work with other brands.) I am currently
> conducting a job search, and I'm interested in an electrical
> engineering position that has a heavy emphasis on
> microcontroller- based circuits. I believe that such jobs are usually
> called "firmware engineer" or "embedded engineer". Are there any
> other terms?
>
> What industries do you work in? What industries hire
> embedded/firmware engineers? (Given how many devices there are that
> use microcontrollers, I believe a wide variety of industries hire
> embedded/firmware engineers.)
>
> Are there any particular organizations dedicated to microcontrollers?
> So far, I have yet to hear of any. IEEE is for electrical
> engineering in general, and none of the societies is dedicated to
> microcontrollers.
>
> What are the best publications for firmware engineers, embedded
> engineers, and engineers who work with microcontrollers?
--
Dennis Clark
TTT Enterprises
------------------------------------

to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

In terms of volume 8 bitters still dominate, 4 bitters are out there in
the millions, ARM is a reasonably recent fad/direction, but has a few
serious flaws for many applications. I've never seen a commercial PC104
application, and the global industry is probably 90% one man shows or
very small companies, while the other 10% have 90% of the cash.

This is a such a huge field that what dominates is always biased by your
areas of operation. As a PhD student you will certainly be influenced by
what is currently trendy in English university courses, which may bear
little or no relationship to someone who si, for example working in
video systems. They'll likely think the world is dominated by Ti 6000
series DSP's or perhaps ADI DSP's. Programmable logic has been around a
long time in various guises, and probably won't go away any time soon.
It has ecently cracked one of its major barriers to widespread
acceptance, that being cost. It still needs to redcue power consumption
though.

Probably the biggest growth area at the moment, and for a while to come
is likely to be sensor technology, and probably wireless sensors, but
then I may be biased by the fact that I currently have interests in
those areas.

related areas to this are ultra low power systems, and, along the same
vein energy harvesting or scavenging. But there are still plenty of
people out there looking for the same old stuff that has been going on
for years. yet another version of a security system, be it car or home,
stick a GPS on the cat, make your secure garage door opeener even more
secure etc.

As for languages, well C seems to dominate now. There has been a slow
drift away from engineers who understood the hardware and the software
to hardware guys and software guys, though how good software can be
designed without an understanding of the hardware escapes me, how on
earth can you determine the optimum way to measure something if you have
no grasp of the avail;able tools, and the same for hardware. how can you
design an efficient microcontroller based system without understanding
the programming limitations. bad enough that C++ seems to be ever more
popular, but when people start asking for java interpreters is the time
I know that there will plenty of work for the foreseeable future for old
buggerslike me.

Al

Gavin Dingley wrote:

> Hi,
> I think ARM microprocessors and PC104 (industrial PCs) are the main
> areas of interest in industry. That being said I think an
> understanding AVR/PIC systems is important in any general job where
> electronic design is involved, but a good grounding in analogue
> electronics is also important. The most lucrative area in industry at
> the moment is VHDL for programmable logic, particularly FPGAs,
> although it won't be long until the bubble busts for that one to. All
> that said I have heard there is a demand for embedded system
> designers, and this does include PICs to some extent, but more often
> ARM. In this case a knowledge of C programming is important, perhaps
> even C++. In fact I would say that C coding is more important than
> assembler, although you still would need the assembler background so
> you know "what's under the hood". By the way I am in the UK, but I
> imagine the situation is similar in the US (if that's where you are from).
>
> I was told by a guy from China that in Taiwan, and to some extent Hong
> Kong, there are allot of one-man-bands, individuals working in their
> own little workshops developing stuff for big industry. The reason for
> this is that industry is tending to ease-out people with any real
> engineering talent, and then suddenly realize they are missing
> something, and so they get these guys to do these little bits of work.
> I can see this starting to happen in the West, and so if you want to
> do this sort of thing you have to be a kind of hands-on consultant.
> The problem is that you have to build up a reputation, and to do this
> you will have to go through employment agencies, and these people are
> pretty crap, as they don't understand many of the professions they are
> handling.
>
> All in all the situation for creative EEs is pretty grim, you have to
> enjoy it because you won't be a millionaire from doing this sort of
> thing. I am a PhD student funded by a government scheme that wants to
> turn Britain's engineering talent into managers - well I won't say
> what I think of that, I'll just get what I can from it and leave them
> with their sad little dream of a useless unproductive nation!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gavin
>
> ramy wagdy wrote:
>
> I asked myself the same question millions of times and cannot find
> the solution.....
>
> PIC microcontrollers are ways to have fun...
> Not to earn money unless you find the answer......
>
>
> Regards,
> Ramy Boghdady
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jason Hsu
> To: p...@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:58:41 AM
> Subject: [piclist] OT: microcontroller-related jobs/careers
>
> With your help in my work on a microcontroller- based SWR/wattmeter
> I've been working on on my own, I've learned so much about
> microcontrollers despite the fact that I never used microcontrollers
> in school or on the job. I now also have a good understanding of
> Assembly language despite the fact that I had no background or
> experience (not even informal) with it prior to discovering the world
> of PIC microcontrollers.
>
> I'd like to hear from those of you who work with microcontrollers on
> the job. (I know that Microchip isn't the only vendor, but my
> experience with the Microchip microcontrollers should be of immense
> value in learning to work with other brands.) I am currently
> conducting a job search, and I'm interested in an electrical
> engineering position that has a heavy emphasis on
> microcontroller- based circuits. I believe that such jobs are usually
> called "firmware engineer" or "embedded engineer". Are there any
> other terms?
>
> What industries do you work in? What industries hire
> embedded/firmware engineers? (Given how many devices there are that
> use microcontrollers, I believe a wide variety of industries hire
> embedded/firmware engineers.)
>
> Are there any particular organizations dedicated to microcontrollers?
> So far, I have yet to hear of any. IEEE is for electrical
> engineering in general, and none of the societies is dedicated to
> microcontrollers.
>
> What are the best publications for firmware engineers, embedded
> engineers, and engineers who work with microcontrollers?
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>Checked by AVG.
>Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6 - Release Date: 3/06/2008 12:00 AM
>
>



(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

I agree whole-heartedly with these observations and comments. Having been closely involved in design & programming for over 40 years, I've seen the whole progression of microcontrollers from the start. Early programmers were also the electronics engineers and the only serious language for small controls was the assembly language for the particular processor that was used.

Nowadays I can find an excess of candidates that can program in C because it's the lingua franca of the education establishments, but few that are accomplished in Assember. Probably because C is transportable. The assembler guys tend to be the hobbyists that are self taught. Fewer still are those that can design the electronics in such a way as to make the most of the processor involved.

As for pay levels, unless you work for a huge corporation, they're paltry compared to what most high level programmers (VB, Java, C++, etc.) receive for applications that are far less life-threatening if they fail than an embedded controller.

It's all down to perception and economics. Big flashy apps look a lot more exciting and expensive that a small, embedded control that nobody sees - no matter how clever it is. Also, unless the embedded code is going to be used in products that sell millions, the overhead of writing the code may adversely affect the end-unit price. Spending thousands of pounds writing the software for an item that only sells in the low hundreds makes nonsense of saving pence on the processor to keep the overall cost low.

Having said all that, and having been involved at all levels in software development and electronic design, I would still recommend students to get into low level programming simply because, despite pay scales, the demand is greater than the supply. When VB programmers are made redundant, many struggle to find new work because their expectations are too high. Good assembly programmers, especially with electronics design skills will always be in demand somewhere.

dB

----- Original Message -----
From: Onestone
To: p...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [piclist] OT: microcontroller-related jobs/careers
In terms of volume 8 bitters still dominate, 4 bitters are out there in the millions, ARM is a reasonably recent fad/direction, but has a few serious flaws for many applications. I've never seen a commercial PC104 application, and the global industry is probably 90% one man shows or very small companies, while the other 10% have 90% of the cash.

This is a such a huge field that what dominates is always biased by your areas of operation. As a PhD student you will certainly be influenced by what is currently trendy in English university courses, which may bear little or no relationship to someone who si, for example working in video systems. They'll likely think the world is dominated by Ti 6000 series DSP's or perhaps ADI DSP's. Programmable logic has been around a long time in various guises, and probably won't go away any time soon. It has ecently cracked one of its major barriers to widespread acceptance, that being cost. It still needs to redcue power consumption though.

Probably the biggest growth area at the moment, and for a while to come is likely to be sensor technology, and probably wireless sensors, but then I may be biased by the fact that I currently have interests in those areas.

related areas to this are ultra low power systems, and, along the same vein energy harvesting or scavenging. But there are still plenty of people out there looking for the same old stuff that has been going on for years. yet another version of a security system, be it car or home, stick a GPS on the cat, make your secure garage door opeener even more secure etc.

As for languages, well C seems to dominate now. There has been a slow drift away from engineers who understood the hardware and the software to hardware guys and software guys, though how good software can be designed without an understanding of the hardware escapes me, how on earth can you determine the optimum way to measure something if you have no grasp of the avail;able tools, and the same for hardware. how can you design an efficient microcontroller based system without understanding the programming limitations. bad enough that C++ seems to be ever more popular, but when people start asking for java interpreters is the time I know that there will plenty of work for the foreseeable future for old buggerslike me.

Al

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Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1513 - Release Date: 22/06/2008 07:52



(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

That's quite enlightening. I did my first degree at a military college, and as it was electrical rather than electronic engineering, the emphasis was on control systems. Before Uni I got a couple of technician level qualifications, but the embedded stuff was the 6502 and 68000 processors that are now a bit long in the tooth. While at Uni I did a module in analogue electronics, one in digital design, which included a bit of VHDL, and a microprocessor systems module (68000 again). So for an industry standard electronic engineer, my degree was pretty useless, and now I am in the process of filling in the gaps (PIC, AVR, C#, VHDL). At the same time I am doing a PhD, which is actually far removed from the real world. Although I am developing a commercial system (radar to be specific), the bulk of it is microwave systems design and MATLAB simulation. So although the microwave stuff will be useful, the rest will not be of any great use to a potential
employer, though MATLAB is used for DSP apparently (which is a program that runs in Java - cringe!).
 
Your comments on one-man-band operations, and the state of technology out there is encouraging, as this is where I want to go, after I have climbed down from the ivory tower of academia ;-) - you know what I mean.
 
The company I work for is obsessed with PC104s, and only have a vague grasp of PICs, never mind AVRs or ARM. Actually one of their products uses a Z80 processor, and they want to upgrade it to a PC104 based system. All of their user interface software is in VB6, and that's OK, but MS will not support this now, and that is why I am now moving over to C#. I have to admit though that it can be quite frustrating if you do keep chasing the latest fad, but it is difficult to see what is just down the road. If you are in the business of maintaining up and running systems/products you can lag a bit behind, but when you are trying to develop new products you have to sort between the fads and tomorrows actual technology - I guess.
 
Gavin

--- On Mon, 6/23/08, Onestone wrote:

From: Onestone
Subject: Re: [piclist] OT: microcontroller-related jobs/careers
To: p...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 1:53 PM

In terms of volume 8 bitters still dominate, 4 bitters are out there in the millions, ARM is a reasonably recent fad/direction, but has a few serious flaws for many applications. I've never seen a  commercial PC104 application, and the global industry is probably 90% one man shows or very small companies, while the other 10% have 90% of the cash.

This is a such a huge field that what dominates is always biased by your areas of operation. As a PhD student you will certainly be influenced by what is currently trendy in English university courses, which may bear little or no relationship to someone who si, for example working in video systems. They'll likely think the world is dominated by Ti 6000 series DSP's or perhaps ADI DSP's. Programmable logic has been around a long time in various guises, and probably won't go away any time soon. It has ecently cracked one of its major barriers to widespread acceptance, that being cost. It still needs to redcue power consumption though.

Probably the biggest growth area at the moment, and for a while to come is likely to be sensor technology, and probably wireless sensors, but then I may be biased by the fact that I currently have interests in those areas.

related areas to this are ultra low power systems, and, along the same vein energy harvesting or scavenging. But there are still plenty of people out there looking for the same old stuff that has been going on for years. yet another version of a security system, be it car or home, stick a GPS on the cat, make your secure garage door opeener even more secure etc.

As for languages, well C seems to dominate now. There has been a slow drift away from engineers who understood the hardware and the software  to hardware guys and software guys, though how good software can be designed without an understanding of the hardware escapes me, how on earth can you determine the optimum way to measure something if you have no grasp of the avail;able tools, and the same for hardware. how can you design an efficient microcontroller based system without understanding the programming limitations. bad enough that C++ seems to be ever more popular, but when people start asking for java interpreters is the time I know that there will plenty of work for the foreseeable future for old buggerslike me.

Al

Gavin Dingley wrote:

Hi,
I think ARM microprocessors and PC104 (industrial PCs) are the main areas of interest in industry. That being said I think an understanding AVR/PIC systems is important in any general job where electronic design is involved, but a good grounding in analogue electronics is also important. The most lucrative area in industry at the moment is VHDL for programmable logic, particularly FPGAs, although it won't be long until the bubble busts for that one to. All that said I have heard there is a demand for embedded system designers, and this does include PICs to some extent, but more often ARM. In this case a knowledge of C programming is important, perhaps even C++. In fact I would say that C coding is more important than assembler, although you still would need the assembler background so you know "what's under the hood". By the way I am in the UK, but I imagine the situation is similar in the US (if that's where you are from).

I was told by a guy from China that in Taiwan, and to some extent Hong Kong, there are allot of one-man-bands, individuals working in their own little workshops developing stuff for big industry. The reason for this is that industry is tending to ease-out people with any real engineering talent, and then suddenly realize they are missing something, and so they get these guys to do these little bits of work. I can see this starting to happen in the West, and so if you want to do this sort of thing you have to be a kind of hands-on consultant. The problem is that you have to build up a reputation, and to do this you will have to go through employment agencies, and these people are pretty crap, as they don't understand many of the professions they are handling.

All in all the situation for creative EEs is pretty grim, you have to enjoy it because  you won't be a millionaire from doing this sort of thing. I am a PhD student funded by a government scheme that wants to turn Britain's engineering talent into managers - well I won't say what I think of that, I'll just get what I can from it and leave them with their sad little dream of a useless unproductive nation!

Cheers,

Gavin

ramy wagdy wrote:

I asked myself the same question millions of times and cannot find the solution.... .
 
PIC microcontrollers are ways to have fun...
Not to earn money unless you find the answer......

 

Regards,
Ramy Boghdady

 

----- Original Message ----
From: Jason Hsu
To: piclist@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:58:41 AM
Subject: [piclist] OT: microcontroller- related jobs/careers

With your help in my work on a microcontroller- based SWR/wattmeter
I've been working on on my own, I've learned so much about
microcontrollers despite the fact that I never used microcontrollers
in school or on the job. I now also have a good understanding of
Assembly language despite the fact that I had no background or
experience (not even informal) with it prior to discovering the world
of PIC microcontrollers.

I'd like to hear from those of you who work with microcontrollers on
the job. (I know that Microchip isn't the only vendor, but my
experience with the Microchip microcontrollers should be of immense
value in learning to work with other brands.) I am currently
conducting a job search, and I'm interested in an electrical
engineering position that has a heavy emphasis on
microcontroller- based circuits. I believe that such jobs are usually
called "firmware engineer" or "embedded engineer". Are there any
other terms?

What industries do you work in? What industries hire
embedded/firmware engineers? (Given how many devices there are that
use microcontrollers, I believe a wide variety of industries hire
embedded/firmware engineers.)

Are there any particular organizations dedicated to microcontrollers?
So far, I have yet to hear of any. IEEE is for electrical
engineering in general, and none of the societies is dedicated to
microcontrollers.

What are the best publications for firmware engineers, embedded
engineers, and engineers who work with microcontrollers?

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6 - Release Date: 3/06/2008 12:00 AM

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


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My formal training was military, no university, though generally
accepted as degree standard, but obviously some years earlier. I started
as a hobbyist when I was 9 in '62, and as a profession in November 1970.
Most of the early computers I worked on or with were discrete systems,
either military or hand built from my local distributor (the great army
parts store!). Languages per se didn't exist. You hardwired in the
'instruction set'. The first progamming language was post army on a dual
mainframe system. First in binary on banks of piano like keys, shifting
the instruction sin in binary. next I discovered the built in assembler.
Which has always seemd like a high level language, and still does.

i think coming through this path to modern systems and micrcontrollers,
gives insight and advantages that are almost impossible for more
modernly trained engineers to acquire. For example with early custom
designs the logic paths were the language, then this followed through to
main frames where the operands could readily be grouped into simple
fields which could be tied directly to hardware that served specific
functions, ie one field was the address of the peripheral controller,
the next the address of the peripheral within that controller, and the
next might be a pattern to seek on a mag tape. making the move into
early microprocessors, like the 6800, 6502, 80xx etc, it was easy to
understand and interpret the actions of each instruction. In fact most
of the technical literature for these devices was afr more complete than
is currently supplied, going in depth into the hardware structures of
the CPU etc. even now when i start work with a new family of devices the
first thing I do is analyse the instruction set, and try to determine
the internal architecture of the device. This in turn leads to a deeper
8understanding of the instruction set, and peipherals, and therefore a
better understanding of how to best utilise the resources available.

I've never bought into high level languages on small micros. C being
readily transportable is a bit of a myth once you leave the PC platform.
As a language it was never designed for microcontrollers. The changes to
the standard to accomodate so called embedded C look like the
afterthought they are, and are often so open to interpretation by the
compiler writer. In fact this is so bad that you can't take a program
written for one compiler and then compile it directly under another, for
most micro families. Let alone actually transport code between different
micros. The second myth is that C is much faster to write wit than
assembler. This isn't the case. I contend that writing the code is
actually such a small part of a well designed system (about 10%) that
any very slight gains in speed are more than compensated for by the
available gans in efficiency. besides ant assembler programmer worth
their salt has libraries of fuctions that are well proven, optimised,
and genrally easy to translate across architectures. Most people assume
that I simply don't kno C. The fact is I've written in C for around 25
years, and used many other languages along the way, but, when it comes
to small micros I always reach for assembler.

Usually I am developing new and unusual products, and have never been
attracted to fads. i simply like what works. that's not to say i'm close
minded, just pedantic to the point where i don't believe the benefits
unless I can measure them.

Here's a simple last thought of mine on the matter.

Even the inefficient core of an Intel processor draws less current, ie
consumes less energy when it is idling. Most modern sstems draw around
400W minimum when running and around 100W when idling (roughly measured
figures from 3 machines). In a 24 hour day spent in 25% running and 75%
idling the machine consumes, on average 175W. Now most PC progras are
written in C++ or even less efficient languages. about 30 times slower
at the very least than assembler would be. So write that code more
efficiently and we get just 12 minutes of full power operation and a
mean energy consumption of 102.5W, a saving of 41%. Multiply that by te
number of PCs in the world and you get energy savings on a par with the
mythical 100mpg auto, and less pollution to boot.

Cheers

Al

Gavin Dingley wrote:

> That's quite enlightening. I did my first degree at a military
> college, and as it was electrical rather than electronic engineering,
> the emphasis was on control systems. Before Uni I got a couple of
> technician level qualifications, but the embedded stuff was the 6502
> and 68000 processors that are now a bit long in the tooth. While at
> Uni I did a module in analogue electronics, one in digital design,
> which included a bit of VHDL, and a microprocessor systems module
> (68000 again). So for an industry standard electronic engineer, my
> degree was pretty useless, and now I am in the process of filling in
> the gaps (PIC, AVR, C#, VHDL). At the same time I am doing a PhD,
> which is actually far removed from the real world. Although I am
> developing a commercial system (radar to be specific), the bulk of it
> is microwave systems design and MATLAB simulation. So although the
> microwave stuff will be useful, the rest will not be of any great use
> to a potential employer, though MATLAB is used for DSP apparently
> (which is a program that runs in Java - cringe!).
>
> Your comments on one-man-band operations, and the state of technology
> out there is encouraging, as this is where I want to go, after I have
> climbed down from the ivory tower of academia ;-) - you know what I
> mean.
>
> The company I work for is obsessed with PC104s, and only have a vague
> grasp of PICs, never mind AVRs or ARM. Actually one of their products
> uses a Z80 processor, and they want to upgrade it to a PC104 based
> system. All of their user interface software is in VB6, and that's
> OK, but MS will not support this now, and that is why I am now moving
> over to C#. I have to admit though that it can be quite frustrating
> if you do keep chasing the latest fad, but it is difficult to see
> what is just down the road. If you are in the business of maintaining
> up and running systems/products you can lag a bit behind, but when
> you are trying to develop new products you have to sort between the
> fads and tomorrows actual technology - I guess.
>
> Gavin
>
> --- On Mon, 6/23/08, Onestone wrote:
>
> From: Onestone Subject: Re: [piclist] OT:
> microcontroller-related jobs/careers To: p...@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 1:53 PM
>
> In terms of volume 8 bitters still dominate, 4 bitters are out there
> in the millions, ARM is a reasonably recent fad/direction, but has a
> few serious flaws for many applications. I've never seen a
> commercial PC104 application, and the global industry is probably 90%
> one man shows or very small companies, while the other 10% have 90%
> of the cash.
>
> This is a such a huge field that what dominates is always biased by
> your areas of operation. As a PhD student you will certainly be
> influenced by what is currently trendy in English university courses,
> which may bear little or no relationship to someone who si, for
> example working in video systems. They'll likely think the world is
> dominated by Ti 6000 series DSP's or perhaps ADI DSP's. Programmable
> logic has been around a long time in various guises, and probably
> won't go away any time soon. It has ecently cracked one of its major
> barriers to widespread acceptance, that being cost. It still needs to
> redcue power consumption though.
>
> Probably the biggest growth area at the moment, and for a while to
> come is likely to be sensor technology, and probably wireless
> sensors, but then I may be biased by the fact that I currently have
> interests in those areas.
>
> related areas to this are ultra low power systems, and, along the
> same vein energy harvesting or scavenging. But there are still plenty
> of people out there looking for the same old stuff that has been
> going on for years. yet another version of a security system, be it
> car or home, stick a GPS on the cat, make your secure garage door
> opeener even more secure etc.
>
> As for languages, well C seems to dominate now. There has been a slow
> drift away from engineers who understood the hardware and the
> software to hardware guys and software guys, though how good
> software can be designed without an understanding of the hardware
> escapes me, how on earth can you determine the optimum way to measure
> something if you have no grasp of the avail;able tools, and the same
> for hardware. how can you design an efficient microcontroller based
> system without understanding the programming limitations. bad enough
> that C++ seems to be ever more popular, but when people start asking
> for java interpreters is the time I know that there will plenty of
> work for the foreseeable future for old buggerslike me.
>
> Al
> Gavin Dingley wrote:
>
> > Hi, I think ARM microprocessors and PC104 (industrial PCs) are the
> > main areas of interest in industry. That being said I think an
> > understanding AVR/PIC systems is important in any general job where
> > electronic design is involved, but a good grounding in analogue
> > electronics is also important. The most lucrative area in industry
> > at the moment is VHDL for programmable logic, particularly FPGAs,
> > although it won't be long until the bubble busts for that one to.
> > All that said I have heard there is a demand for embedded system
> > designers, and this does include PICs to some extent, but more
> > often ARM. In this case a knowledge of C programming is important,
> > perhaps even C++. In fact I would say that C coding is more
> > important than assembler, although you still would need the
> > assembler background so you know "what's under the hood". By the
> > way I am in the UK, but I imagine the situation is similar in the
> > US (if that's where you are from).
> >
> > I was told by a guy from China that in Taiwan, and to some extent
> > Hong Kong, there are allot of one-man-bands, individuals working in
> > their own little workshops developing stuff for big industry. The
> > reason for this is that industry is tending to ease-out people with
> > any real engineering talent, and then suddenly realize they are
> > missing something, and so they get these guys to do these little
> > bits of work. I can see this starting to happen in the West, and so
> > if you want to do this sort of thing you have to be a kind of
> > hands-on consultant. The problem is that you have to build up a
> > reputation, and to do this you will have to go through employment
> > agencies, and these people are pretty crap, as they don't
> > understand many of the professions they are handling.
> >
> > All in all the situation for creative EEs is pretty grim, you have
> > to enjoy it because you won't be a millionaire from doing this
> > sort of thing. I am a PhD student funded by a government scheme
> > that wants to turn Britain's engineering talent into managers -
> > well I won't say what I think of that, I'll just get what I can
> > from it and leave them with their sad little dream of a useless
> > unproductive nation!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Gavin
> >
> > ramy wagdy wrote:
> >
> > I asked myself the same question millions of times and cannot find
> > the solution.... .
> >
> > PIC microcontrollers are ways to have fun... Not to earn money
> > unless you find the answer......
> >
> >
> > Regards, Ramy Boghdady
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ---- From: Jason Hsu > > com> To: piclist@yahoogroups .com Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008
> > 5:58:41 AM Subject: [piclist] OT: microcontroller- related
> > jobs/careers
> >
> > With your help in my work on a microcontroller- based SWR/wattmeter
> > I've been working on on my own, I've learned so much about
> > microcontrollers despite the fact that I never used
> > microcontrollers in school or on the job. I now also have a good
> > understanding of Assembly language despite the fact that I had no
> > background or experience (not even informal) with it prior to
> > discovering the world of PIC microcontrollers.
> >
> > I'd like to hear from those of you who work with microcontrollers
> > on the job. (I know that Microchip isn't the only vendor, but my
> > experience with the Microchip microcontrollers should be of immense
> > value in learning to work with other brands.) I am currently
> > conducting a job search, and I'm interested in an electrical
> > engineering position that has a heavy emphasis on microcontroller-
> > based circuits. I believe that such jobs are usually called
> > "firmware engineer" or "embedded engineer". Are there any other
> > terms?
> >
> > What industries do you work in? What industries hire
> > embedded/firmware engineers? (Given how many devices there are that
> > use microcontrollers, I believe a wide variety of industries hire
> > embedded/firmware engineers.)
> >
> > Are there any particular organizations dedicated to
> > microcontrollers? So far, I have yet to hear of any. IEEE is for
> > electrical engineering in general, and none of the societies is
> > dedicated to microcontrollers.
> >
> > What are the best publications for firmware engineers, embedded
> > engineers, and engineers who work with microcontrollers?
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version:
> > 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6 - Release Date: 3/06/2008 12:00
> > AM
> >
>
> -------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version:
> 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1515 - Release Date: 23/06/2008
> 7:16 PM



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