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Discussion Groups | LPC2000 | New Cortex M3 Debug Connectors
Discussion group dedicated to the Philips LPC2000 family of ARM MCUs
New Cortex M3 Debug Connectors - kevin_townsend2 - Oct 12 3:13:02 2009
I've been trying to come to terms with the new debug connector and interface for the M3.
An overview of the new connectors can be found here:
http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.faqs/attached/13634/cortex_debug_connectors.pdf
They've moved from the (admittedly large) 20 pin molex type connectors to the much smaller 10/20 pin 0.05" Samtec FTSH ones. Saving space is great ... the problem is that those connectors sell for ~$5/piece on Digikey (more than the MCU). Has anyone here made a board that uses the new connectors, that might be able to suggest a cheaper alernative?
For the moment I think I'm just going to stick generic 0.05" SMT male header pins on there (around $0.10-$0.15 each), but without seeing an example of the standard connectors I'm not sure if that will work or which height I need for the post. The Samtec datasheet has 4 different lead sizes depending on the FTSH model chosen (which isn't mentionned in the PDF from ARM):
http://www.samtec.com/ftppub/pdf/ftsh_mt.pdf
If anyone has any more concrete specifications on the connectors, or can at least confirm whether generic 0,05" male header pins will work and which height (2.5mm, 2.0mm, etc.), I'd appreciate hearing about it.
------------------------------------
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http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.faqs/attached/13634/cortex_debug_connectors.pdf
They've moved from the (admittedly large) 20 pin molex type connectors to the much smaller 10/20 pin 0.05" Samtec FTSH ones. Saving space is great ... the problem is that those connectors sell for ~$5/piece on Digikey (more than the MCU). Has anyone here made a board that uses the new connectors, that might be able to suggest a cheaper alernative?
For the moment I think I'm just going to stick generic 0.05" SMT male header pins on there (around $0.10-$0.15 each), but without seeing an example of the standard connectors I'm not sure if that will work or which height I need for the post. The Samtec datasheet has 4 different lead sizes depending on the FTSH model chosen (which isn't mentionned in the PDF from ARM):
http://www.samtec.com/ftppub/pdf/ftsh_mt.pdf
If anyone has any more concrete specifications on the connectors, or can at least confirm whether generic 0,05" male header pins will work and which height (2.5mm, 2.0mm, etc.), I'd appreciate hearing about it.
------------------------------------
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Re: New Cortex M3 Debug Connectors - kevin_townsend2 - Oct 13 10:58:30 2009
Just to follow up, this is the answer I got from ARM/Keil:
-------------------
The connectors used on our Keil boards are the -01 option which have a
3.05mm pin length.
Generic parts will work ok, but it is easy to connect them up the wrong way around or not quite central. We recommend the Samtec parts with the keying shroud (-K option). This takes up the same space as the un-shrouded type and allows the user to pull the connector without straining the cable.
-------------------
Kevin
> http://www.samtec.com/ftppub/pdf/ftsh_mt.pdf
>
> If anyone has any more concrete specifications on the connectors, or can at least confirm whether generic 0,05" male header pins will work and which height (2.5mm, 2.0mm, etc.), I'd appreciate hearing about it.
>
------------------------------------
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-------------------
The connectors used on our Keil boards are the -01 option which have a
3.05mm pin length.
Generic parts will work ok, but it is easy to connect them up the wrong way around or not quite central. We recommend the Samtec parts with the keying shroud (-K option). This takes up the same space as the un-shrouded type and allows the user to pull the connector without straining the cable.
-------------------
Kevin
> http://www.samtec.com/ftppub/pdf/ftsh_mt.pdf
>
> If anyone has any more concrete specifications on the connectors, or can at least confirm whether generic 0,05" male header pins will work and which height (2.5mm, 2.0mm, etc.), I'd appreciate hearing about it.
>
------------------------------------
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Re: New Cortex M3 Debug Connectors - redwire85 - Oct 13 17:06:24 2009
Any reason to change the connector if the old footprint is still supported by M3? If you
have Keil or Segger you can just use the new pinout.
--- In l...@yahoogroups.com, "kevin_townsend2" wrote:
>
> I've been trying to come to terms with the new debug connector and interface for the M3. An overview of the new connectors can be found here:
>
> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.faqs/attached/13634/cortex_debug_connectors.pdf
>
> They've moved from the (admittedly large) 20 pin molex type connectors to the much smaller 10/20 pin 0.05" Samtec FTSH ones. Saving space is great ... the problem is that those connectors sell for ~$5/piece on Digikey (more than the MCU). Has anyone here made a board that uses the new connectors, that might be able to suggest a cheaper alernative?
>
> For the moment I think I'm just going to stick generic 0.05" SMT male header pins on there (around $0.10-$0.15 each), but without seeing an example of the standard connectors I'm not sure if that will work or which height I need for the post. The Samtec datasheet has 4 different lead sizes depending on the FTSH model chosen (which isn't mentionned in the PDF from ARM):
>
> http://www.samtec.com/ftppub/pdf/ftsh_mt.pdf
>
> If anyone has any more concrete specifications on the connectors, or can at least confirm whether generic 0,05" male header pins will work and which height (2.5mm, 2.0mm, etc.), I'd appreciate hearing about it.
>
------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
--- In l...@yahoogroups.com, "kevin_townsend2"
>
> I've been trying to come to terms with the new debug connector and interface for the M3. An overview of the new connectors can be found here:
>
> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.faqs/attached/13634/cortex_debug_connectors.pdf
>
> They've moved from the (admittedly large) 20 pin molex type connectors to the much smaller 10/20 pin 0.05" Samtec FTSH ones. Saving space is great ... the problem is that those connectors sell for ~$5/piece on Digikey (more than the MCU). Has anyone here made a board that uses the new connectors, that might be able to suggest a cheaper alernative?
>
> For the moment I think I'm just going to stick generic 0.05" SMT male header pins on there (around $0.10-$0.15 each), but without seeing an example of the standard connectors I'm not sure if that will work or which height I need for the post. The Samtec datasheet has 4 different lead sizes depending on the FTSH model chosen (which isn't mentionned in the PDF from ARM):
>
> http://www.samtec.com/ftppub/pdf/ftsh_mt.pdf
>
> If anyone has any more concrete specifications on the connectors, or can at least confirm whether generic 0,05" male header pins will work and which height (2.5mm, 2.0mm, etc.), I'd appreciate hearing about it.
>
------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: New Cortex M3 Debug Connectors - kevin_townsend2 - Oct 14 6:09:39 2009
> Any reason to change the connector if the old footprint is still supported by M3? If
you have Keil or Segger you can just use the new pinout.
The footprint/pinout is different. Some chips like the LPC1700 support both the classic JTAG (20 pin molex-type) interface as well as SWD (or SWD through the classic pinout), but the smaller chips (like the LPC1300 family) only support SWD meaning you need to use the new 10 pin connectors (once the HW manufacturers presumably update their hardware ... at the moment Keil seems to be the only one with the new connector on their JTAG device).
I emailed Segger about it, but I didn't have the impression the guy responding had any idea what I was talking about (I didn't get a esponse to my questoin about whether a new cable would be available in the future or not). I'll just make a cable/pcb adapter myself for now since the J-Link is (for the moment) the only SWD compatible device that works with Crossworks, though I think Paul planned to update his (excellent) CrossConnect as well.
Kevin.
------------------------------------
______________________________
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Real-world software for real-time control. Details Here!
(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
The footprint/pinout is different. Some chips like the LPC1700 support both the classic JTAG (20 pin molex-type) interface as well as SWD (or SWD through the classic pinout), but the smaller chips (like the LPC1300 family) only support SWD meaning you need to use the new 10 pin connectors (once the HW manufacturers presumably update their hardware ... at the moment Keil seems to be the only one with the new connector on their JTAG device).
I emailed Segger about it, but I didn't have the impression the guy responding had any idea what I was talking about (I didn't get a esponse to my questoin about whether a new cable would be available in the future or not). I'll just make a cable/pcb adapter myself for now since the J-Link is (for the moment) the only SWD compatible device that works with Crossworks, though I think Paul planned to update his (excellent) CrossConnect as well.
Kevin.
------------------------------------
______________________________
controlSUITE™ software. Comprehensive. Intuitive. Optimized.
Real-world software for real-time control. Details Here!
(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: New Cortex M3 Debug Connectors - redwire85 - Oct 14 11:32:01 2009
The reason I said it was that I was just at a conference with IAR who stated you don't
need to change when using their Jlink (Segger) on SWD... You do have to route to the
appropriate pins as you're aware.
I am following this thread to learn so please post up your findings from Segger! Thanks.
--- In l...@yahoogroups.com, "kevin_townsend2" wrote:
>
> > Any reason to change the connector if the old footprint is still supported by M3? If you have Keil or Segger you can just use the new pinout.
>
> The footprint/pinout is different. Some chips like the LPC1700 support both the classic JTAG (20 pin molex-type) interface as well as SWD (or SWD through the classic pinout), but the smaller chips (like the LPC1300 family) only support SWD meaning you need to use the new 10 pin connectors (once the HW manufacturers presumably update their hardware ... at the moment Keil seems to be the only one with the new connector on their JTAG device).
>
> I emailed Segger about it, but I didn't have the impression the guy responding had any idea what I was talking about (I didn't get a esponse to my questoin about whether a new cable would be available in the future or not). I'll just make a cable/pcb adapter myself for now since the J-Link is (for the moment) the only SWD compatible device that works with Crossworks, though I think Paul planned to update his (excellent) CrossConnect as well.
>
> Kevin.
>
------------------------------------
______________________________
controlSUITE™ software. Comprehensive. Intuitive. Optimized.
Real-world software for real-time control. Details Here!
(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
I am following this thread to learn so please post up your findings from Segger! Thanks.
--- In l...@yahoogroups.com, "kevin_townsend2"
>
> > Any reason to change the connector if the old footprint is still supported by M3? If you have Keil or Segger you can just use the new pinout.
>
> The footprint/pinout is different. Some chips like the LPC1700 support both the classic JTAG (20 pin molex-type) interface as well as SWD (or SWD through the classic pinout), but the smaller chips (like the LPC1300 family) only support SWD meaning you need to use the new 10 pin connectors (once the HW manufacturers presumably update their hardware ... at the moment Keil seems to be the only one with the new connector on their JTAG device).
>
> I emailed Segger about it, but I didn't have the impression the guy responding had any idea what I was talking about (I didn't get a esponse to my questoin about whether a new cable would be available in the future or not). I'll just make a cable/pcb adapter myself for now since the J-Link is (for the moment) the only SWD compatible device that works with Crossworks, though I think Paul planned to update his (excellent) CrossConnect as well.
>
> Kevin.
>
------------------------------------
______________________________
controlSUITE™ software. Comprehensive. Intuitive. Optimized.
Real-world software for real-time control. Details Here!
(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: New Cortex M3 Debug Connectors - kevin_townsend2 - Oct 15 4:19:56 2009
You're right that you can still use the larger 20 pin connector and just route it
differently. That's probably what I'll end up doing myself for now for simplicity sake
(I've made footprints for both connector types). I assume that most manufacturers will
move to the 10 pin cables (???), but I'll have to see once a few more dev boards come out
(I haven't seen any real dev boards for the SWD only 1300s yet). I suspect the easiest
route for a lot of JTAG manufacturers may just be an adapter board of sorts if they can
handle rerouting the signals internally.
I did get an email from Segger today informing me that they apparently had plans (though no timetable) for an adapter themselves (and was impressed that they made the effort to respond based on my comments here in LPC2000).
Kevin.
PS: It seems you no longer need all the pullup/down resistors on the new SWD interface compared to classic JTAG ... the Keil MCB1700 board doesn't seem to have any in any case. That kind of surprised me, but I'll have to pour over the documentation a bit more. If true I suppose it saves a bit more space as well.
--- In l...@yahoogroups.com, "redwire85" wrote:
>
> The reason I said it was that I was just at a conference with IAR who stated you don't need to change when using their Jlink (Segger) on SWD... You do have to route to the appropriate pins as you're aware.
>
> I am following this thread to learn so please post up your findings from Segger! Thanks.
>
> --- In l...@yahoogroups.com, "kevin_townsend2" wrote:
> >
> > > Any reason to change the connector if the old footprint is still supported by M3? If you have Keil or Segger you can just use the new pinout.
> >
> > The footprint/pinout is different. Some chips like the LPC1700 support both the classic JTAG (20 pin molex-type) interface as well as SWD (or SWD through the classic pinout), but the smaller chips (like the LPC1300 family) only support SWD meaning you need to use the new 10 pin connectors (once the HW manufacturers presumably update their hardware ... at the moment Keil seems to be the only one with the new connector on their JTAG device).
> >
> > I emailed Segger about it, but I didn't have the impression the guy responding had any idea what I was talking about (I didn't get a esponse to my questoin about whether a new cable would be available in the future or not). I'll just make a cable/pcb adapter myself for now since the J-Link is (for the moment) the only SWD compatible device that works with Crossworks, though I think Paul planned to update his (excellent) CrossConnect as well.
> >
> > Kevin.
>
------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
I did get an email from Segger today informing me that they apparently had plans (though no timetable) for an adapter themselves (and was impressed that they made the effort to respond based on my comments here in LPC2000).
Kevin.
PS: It seems you no longer need all the pullup/down resistors on the new SWD interface compared to classic JTAG ... the Keil MCB1700 board doesn't seem to have any in any case. That kind of surprised me, but I'll have to pour over the documentation a bit more. If true I suppose it saves a bit more space as well.
--- In l...@yahoogroups.com, "redwire85"
>
> The reason I said it was that I was just at a conference with IAR who stated you don't need to change when using their Jlink (Segger) on SWD... You do have to route to the appropriate pins as you're aware.
>
> I am following this thread to learn so please post up your findings from Segger! Thanks.
>
> --- In l...@yahoogroups.com, "kevin_townsend2"
> >
> > > Any reason to change the connector if the old footprint is still supported by M3? If you have Keil or Segger you can just use the new pinout.
> >
> > The footprint/pinout is different. Some chips like the LPC1700 support both the classic JTAG (20 pin molex-type) interface as well as SWD (or SWD through the classic pinout), but the smaller chips (like the LPC1300 family) only support SWD meaning you need to use the new 10 pin connectors (once the HW manufacturers presumably update their hardware ... at the moment Keil seems to be the only one with the new connector on their JTAG device).
> >
> > I emailed Segger about it, but I didn't have the impression the guy responding had any idea what I was talking about (I didn't get a esponse to my questoin about whether a new cable would be available in the future or not). I'll just make a cable/pcb adapter myself for now since the J-Link is (for the moment) the only SWD compatible device that works with Crossworks, though I think Paul planned to update his (excellent) CrossConnect as well.
> >
> > Kevin.
>
------------------------------------
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