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Discussion Groups | BasicX | Re: LCD precaution
Discussion forum for the BasicX family of microcontroller chips.
Re: LCD precaution - Neil Jepsen - Oct 15 17:13:00 2001
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I recently had a problem with an LCD and keypad, which turned out to be the keypad losing its keytags, and random values appearing in the keypad tag locations. Now as a precaution, I load new tags whenever the BX24 is booted, and from time to time in the main loop. viz call putqueuestr(ocom3,chr(20) & chr(49) & chr(50) & chr(51) & chr(48) & chr(52) _ & chr(53) & chr(54) & chr(48) & chr(55) &chr(56) & chr(57) & chr(48) _ & chr(73) & chr(48) & chr(72) & chr(48)) Note that I am using a 12key keypad, so the ABCD rows are missing and I have put zero (48) where they would be. neil |
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RE: LCD precaution - Dan Bielecki - Oct 16 17:08:00 2001
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I had problems like this awhile back. Had to reconfigure the LCD at startup every time. It kept loosing its configuration intermittently...with no rhyme or reason. Keypad tags, custom characters, pad settings...you name it. One thing to keep in mind is that the LCD pulls about 200ma when the back light on (see manual). If you are powering the LCD right off the BX you could be exceeding the bx 100ma at times despite the fact that it works above what's stated in the BX hardware manual. I was having flaky garbage pop up with mine after adding a new device. That device was pulling 80ma at times and would cause the LCD to act strange due to the intermittent current drops. Those drops were corrupting the configuration settings. Since then I power both the LCD and the other device separately from the prime power source, not from the bx. Only my StampMEM ROM is chained off the BX now. It only pulls 10ma. (the on board bxRegulator is running a lot cooler now also....duhhhh !) .db. -----Original Message----- From: Neil Jepsen [mailto:] Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 3:13 PM To: Subject: Re: [BasicX] LCD precaution I recently had a problem with an LCD and keypad, which turned out to be the keypad losing its keytags, and random values appearing in the keypad tag locations. Now as a precaution, I load new tags whenever the BX24 is booted, and from time to time in the main loop. viz call putqueuestr(ocom3,chr(20) & chr(49) & chr(50) & chr(51) & chr(48) & chr(52) _ & chr(53) & chr(54) & chr(48) & chr(55) &chr(56) & chr(57) & chr(48) _ & chr(73) & chr(48) & chr(72) & chr(48)) Note that I am using a 12key keypad, so the ABCD rows are missing and I have put zero (48) where they would be. neil Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: LCD precaution - Neil Jepsen - Oct 16 19:26:00 2001
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No iyts not that Dan. I power the LCD off a separate off-board 12v regulator. I am uisng the BX24 and LCD to control a rotational moulding plant and there are 2 VSDs and a number of contactors in a neighbouring cabinet, so I guess its noise. the BX24 has never malfunctioned but the LCD is not that noise immune. I have taken noise precautions such as separate power supplies for the BX24 and the other stuff; sheilded cable on all LCD I/O; all BX24 I/O is buffered etc. neil Dan Bielecki wrote: > I had problems like this awhile back. Had to reconfigure the LCD at > startup > every time. It kept loosing its configuration intermittently...with > no > rhyme or reason. Keypad tags, custom characters, pad settings...you > name > it. > > One thing to keep in mind is that the LCD pulls about 200ma when the > back > light on (see manual). > > If you are powering the LCD right off the BX you could be exceeding > the bx > 100ma at times despite the fact that it works above what's stated in > the BX > hardware manual. I was having flaky garbage pop up with mine after > adding a > new device. > That device was pulling 80ma at times and would cause the LCD to act > strange > due to the intermittent current drops. Those drops were corrupting > the > configuration settings. > > Since then I power both the LCD and the other device separately from > the > prime power source, not from the bx. Only my StampMEM ROM is chained > off > the BX now. It only pulls 10ma. (the on board bxRegulator is running > a lot > cooler now also....duhhhh !) > > .db. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Neil Jepsen [mailto:] > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 3:13 PM > To: > Subject: Re: [BasicX] LCD precaution > I recently had a problem with an LCD and keypad, which turned out to > be > the keypad losing its keytags, and random values appearing in the > keypad > tag locations. Now as a precaution, I load new tags whenever the BX24 > is > booted, and from time to time in the main loop. > > viz > call putqueuestr(ocom3,chr(20) & chr(49) & chr(50) & chr(51) & chr(48) > & > chr(52) _ > & chr(53) & chr(54) & chr(48) & chr(55) &chr(56) & chr(57) & chr(48) _ > > & chr(73) & chr(48) & chr(72) & chr(48)) > > Note that I am using a 12key keypad, so the ABCD rows are missing and > I > have put zero (48) where they would be. > > neil > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor [Image] > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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RE: LCD precaution - Dan Bielecki - Oct 16 23:04:00 2001
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Hummmmm. Noise. I've done this in the past........encase components in a home-brewed sandwiched mixture of the following: Plastic (clear, non-conductive) | Gold foil | Aluminum foil | Copper foil | Plastic again. I just buy sheets of the plastic that you'd use on an overhead projector. Their 8 1/2 X 11 and easy to work with with a razor knife. I spray one side with clear adhesive and lay the gold foil on it. (I like the gold to show). Roll it smooth with a rolling pin. Then spray another layer and then the Aluminum, spray, then the Copper foil, spray, then the plastic backing. Rolling each layer flat and smooth each time. You end up with a fairly strong, but thin sandwiched insulator that you can still cut with a razor knife to any shape needed. The thing will bend and crease and hold a pattern due to the foil layers. Its really easy to make a box-shaped pattern that would encompass the LCD. Its pretty small. One sheet of the stuff should do it and just cut the foil around the display window but leave the plastic layer intact. Would act as another protector for the display. Punch or drill 8 holes and you could even screw the shield on with some thin plastic washers, using the same 8 screws that hold the display to the driver board. (Im currently looking at my LCD. I have my unit open for hardware mods) I originally got the sandwich idea from NASA of all places. They use the same principles of sandwiched layers to protect satellites from all of the different cosmic, X, gamma, delta, radio, whatever-rays that are present in space. Gold is known as a Heavy Metal and is real dense in atomic structure. Not much passes thru it. Thats why NASA uses it so much on spacecraft. To keep the rays out. The aluminum knocks out RF type. And well...the copper.... I just kinda added one time for looks and just kept it up since then. (The gold/copper look is cool in my book) Im sure the copper stops SOMETHING!!!! Its used as grounding plates a lot in the RF world so its gotta be doing something in the big picture of things. The gold foil is the hardest to come by...ya have to really search the internet shops for it. The other two are pretty easy to get a hold of. Hobby and craft stores sometimes carry gold foil sheets.... thats where I get my locally, here in Arizona. Its used for gold-leafing in crafts and you can usually find 8 1/2 X 11 sheets of it. It doesn't cost an arm-and-a-leg to make the sandwich and has the advantage of being custom to a device shape or size. Something an off-the-shelf box may not have. And its real thin and usually fits right back into the case the components are already housed in. Just like a little golden sandwich overcoat! .db. -----Original Message----- From: Neil Jepsen [mailto:] Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 5:27 PM To: Subject: Re: [BasicX] LCD precaution No iyts not that Dan. I power the LCD off a separate off-board 12v regulator. I am uisng the BX24 and LCD to control a rotational moulding plant and there are 2 VSDs and a number of contactors in a neighbouring cabinet, so I guess its noise. the BX24 has never malfunctioned but the LCD is not that noise immune. I have taken noise precautions such as separate power supplies for the BX24 and the other stuff; sheilded cable on all LCD I/O; all BX24 I/O is buffered etc. neil Dan Bielecki wrote: > I had problems like this awhile back. Had to reconfigure the LCD at > startup > every time. It kept loosing its configuration intermittently...with > no > rhyme or reason. Keypad tags, custom characters, pad settings...you > name > it. > > One thing to keep in mind is that the LCD pulls about 200ma when the > back > light on (see manual). > > If you are powering the LCD right off the BX you could be exceeding > the bx > 100ma at times despite the fact that it works above what's stated in > the BX > hardware manual. I was having flaky garbage pop up with mine after > adding a > new device. > That device was pulling 80ma at times and would cause the LCD to act > strange > due to the intermittent current drops. Those drops were corrupting > the > configuration settings. > > Since then I power both the LCD and the other device separately from > the > prime power source, not from the bx. Only my StampMEM ROM is chained > off > the BX now. It only pulls 10ma. (the on board bxRegulator is running > a lot > cooler now also....duhhhh !) > > .db. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Neil Jepsen [mailto:] > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 3:13 PM > To: > Subject: Re: [BasicX] LCD precaution > I recently had a problem with an LCD and keypad, which turned out to > be > the keypad losing its keytags, and random values appearing in the > keypad > tag locations. Now as a precaution, I load new tags whenever the BX24 > is > booted, and from time to time in the main loop. > > viz > call putqueuestr(ocom3,chr(20) & chr(49) & chr(50) & chr(51) & chr(48) > & > chr(52) _ > & chr(53) & chr(54) & chr(48) & chr(55) &chr(56) & chr(57) & chr(48) _ > > & chr(73) & chr(48) & chr(72) & chr(48)) > > Note that I am using a 12key keypad, so the ABCD rows are missing and > I > have put zero (48) where they would be. > > neil > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor [Image] > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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RE: LCD precaution - Tom Becker - Oct 17 8:38:00 2001
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> ... encase components... If the foil is grounded, shielding of this type will minimize _radiated_ noise, both emitted and absorbed; for the shielding to be most effective, it must be grounded _entirely_ along all edges, forming a Faraday cage. That might be necessary to quiet a sensitive audio or RF device in a noisy environment, or to prevent a noisy device from radiating RF to nearby receivers. It is, though, unlikely to have much effect on improving the reliability of a keypad unless the keypad is in an extremely noisy environment, the wiring impedances are very high and the runs are long. As a practical matter, gold foil vs. copper or aluminum is akin to oxygen-free mono-spiral wound Monster Cables on speakers. Aluminum window screening or cooking foil will be as effective in shielding at practical frequencies and powers outside the magnetic field of the noise source. I agree, though, that gold looks real nice. Tom Becker --... ...-- GTBecker@RighTime_com GTBecker@Veriomail_com www.RighTime.com The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA |
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RE: LCD precaution - Dan Bielecki - Oct 17 23:30:00 2001
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Huh...whatda know.... my home surround system uses only the best monster cables for its connections. As does my loft stereo system...and gold midi cables for my studio connections. My son also uses gold monster cables for his band and all his guitar and sound system connections. And to think I only liked the gold coloring.... :) So Tom...what you are basically saying is that for all practical reasons the gold is no better then the aluminum? Correct? Just the fact that a device is shielded? What about the instance of say.... an RF modem preferring a copper base under it for better transmission/reception? Copper vs gold or aluminum in that case. What does the copper possess or do that is different then the other metals? (BTW...I do ground the homemade cage) .db. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Becker [mailto:] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 6:38 AM To: Subject: RE: [BasicX] LCD precaution > ... encase components... If the foil is grounded, shielding of this type will minimize _radiated_ noise, both emitted and absorbed; for the shielding to be most effective, it must be grounded _entirely_ along all edges, forming a Faraday cage. That might be necessary to quiet a sensitive audio or RF device in a noisy environment, or to prevent a noisy device from radiating RF to nearby receivers. It is, though, unlikely to have much effect on improving the reliability of a keypad unless the keypad is in an extremely noisy environment, the wiring impedances are very high and the runs are long. As a practical matter, gold foil vs. copper or aluminum is akin to oxygen-free mono-spiral wound Monster Cables on speakers. Aluminum window screening or cooking foil will be as effective in shielding at practical frequencies and powers outside the magnetic field of the noise source. I agree, though, that gold looks real nice. Tom Becker --... ...-- GTBecker@RighTime_com GTBecker@Veriomail_com www.RighTime.com The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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RE: LCD precaution - Tom Becker - Oct 18 8:38:00 2001
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> ... my home surround system uses only the best monster cables... > ... gold midi cables... > ... an RF modem preferring a copper base under it... God Bless the American consumer. If you think you can hear a difference, then your money is well spent. Better Midi data, though? Doubtful. Yes, an aluminum ground plane under an antenna will behave just as a gold one will. In practical applications, the only advantage of one metal over another is its ruggedness. In high-current applications like broadcast transmission, conductivity can play a part but, even there, silver is the king; gold is sometimes used as plating to protect the silver, not because it is an electrically-better material. Gold is not the best conductor but it is the least reactive; it won't oxidize so connections will be, in general, more reliable with a very thin gold plate. Tom Becker --... ...-- GTBecker@RighTime_com GTBecker@Veriomail_com www.RighTime.com The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA |
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RE: LCD precaution - Fringe Ryder - Oct 18 9:03:00 2001
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I got a real kick out of those flame-ridden debates on the audio websites a few years ago about which sounded more natural... coax (electrical) digital cables or toslink (optical) digital cables. The inability to comprehend simple physics has separated many fools from money. On the flip side, on my video system I can clearly see, as can anybody with decent vision, the difference between $60 MonsterCable S-Video cable and the cheap S-Video cable that came with one of the players. There's a lot to be said for interference rejection as well as for proper phase balancing and shifting. As for gold midi cables, Tom, you must not be a performer. The cables themselves aren't gold, I'm sure, but the connectors are because they're finicky and plugged in/removed frequently (i.e. with every equipment change or new venue), and tracking down why the signals ain't working is way too much frustration on a performance (or any other) schedule. A smidge of gold is not just cheap, but effective, insurance. Of course, part of this religion for the best connectors still comes from the pre-digital audiophile world. Anybody remember "Tweak", a contact cleaner/optimizer used in the pre-gold era? Never tried it myself because the grunge/oxidation could be solved other ways such as swabbing with a qtip in alcohol and then never moving them again, but the problem it was solving was real: poor contacts on your RCA jacks really muddied the sound. This was before the mid-80s brought us yuppies with a technology for every problem you ever dreamed of. Now we need the internet to know that we have the problem, and then to find out that knowing about the problem is symptomatic of another, deeper, psychological problem. So maybe Dan is still indoctrinated by some Audio Cardinal from the distant past. (Dan, Tom's correct that the ground plane can be any conductive metal; the size matters more than the composition. When there appears to be a metal preference, odds are that it's either because the preferred one is THICKER than the other or it's solving some other problem better. For example, copper is a much better heat conductor than aluminum, so would cool better. Not all problems are electrical.) At 09:38 AM 10/18/2001 -0400, Tom Becker wrote: > > ... my home surround system uses only the best monster cables... > > ... gold midi cables... > > ... an RF modem preferring a copper base under it... > >God Bless the American consumer. If you think you can hear a >difference, then your money is well spent. Better Midi data, though? >Doubtful. > >Yes, an aluminum ground plane under an antenna will behave just as a >gold one will. In practical applications, the only advantage of one >metal over another is its ruggedness. In high-current applications like >broadcast transmission, conductivity can play a part but, even there, >silver is the king; gold is sometimes used as plating to protect the >silver, not because it is an electrically-better material. Gold is not >the best conductor but it is the least reactive; it won't oxidize so >connections will be, in general, more reliable with a very thin gold >plate. >Tom Becker >--... ...-- >GTBecker@RighTime_com GTBecker@Veriomail_com www.RighTime.com >The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA |
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RE: LCD precaution - Tom Becker - Oct 18 9:12:00 2001
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> As for gold midi cables, Tom, you must not be a performer. I did 10 years of audio engineering for the Orange Bowl Committee and NBC, several with the BBC in the Caribbean, built a dozen or so radio stations and spent too much time at a board in Tobacco Road, Al Capone's club, now a blues bar, in Miami; I pretend like I can play a few instruments but I'm much better at microphone placement, recording and mixing. Midi, I agree, is trouble-prone on stage. No argument about connectors. Tom Becker --... ...-- GTBecker@RighTime_com GTBecker@Veriomail_com www.RighTime.com The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA |
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RE: LCD precaution - Dan Bielecki - Oct 18 16:35:00 2001
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Okay...Okay....Just for the record. My cables are not SOLID gold...just the connectors. And for the reasons listed (corrosion, oxidation...etc) And as for the indoctrination by the Audio Cardinal.....well, lets just say that I've been around that audio block and lived and learned...yes...even thru the 70s and 80s. Jeeze! These days, I could be a Cardinal for that matter, but the thought of prancing around in those robes just doesn't turn my crank. But I am a Proud American Consumer !!! (Especially these days) Proud, but not foolish...I know how to shop and haggle and even be on the better end of financial transactions....after all, that is what I do for a living. Develop financial software. After almost 20 years of number crunching in code on the big-boy machines...one tends to want to play around a bit in the off hours on a little BX with matters unrelated to the bottom line of some corporation. So next time you order something online and click "checkout"....or that package of gold plated speaker cables you just purchased is run thru the scanner at your local electronic shop....and you run your Goldcard thru the terminal and punch in your PIN....think of me, okay? I have a lot to do with it, under the covers, deep in the code, running on that back-office AS400/NT multi-tasking server hosting that POS system in real-time...validating that gold card and recording that transaction (in balance) to the General Ledger, issuing replenishment EDI instructions to restock that order back onto the merchant shelf...all before you're out the door.....think of me, eh? ....and my gold cables and homemade cages!!! Thx to all you guys...for all the conductivity insight ... I now understand something else a little better that only a small portion of our Greater Earth Society really cares about.!!! Something else to keep me awake at night worrying "Is that shielded properly?..Hummm.....I wonder...." Im gonna go listen to some Megadeth now...at volume setting 11...in pristine surround sound...transmitted thru my gold cables....and enjoy some the the golden fruits of my labors.... :) .db. -----Original Message----- From: Fringe Ryder [mailto:] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 7:04 AM To: Subject: RE: [BasicX] LCD precaution I got a real kick out of those flame-ridden debates on the audio websites a few years ago about which sounded more natural... coax (electrical) digital cables or toslink (optical) digital cables. The inability to comprehend simple physics has separated many fools from money. On the flip side, on my video system I can clearly see, as can anybody with decent vision, the difference between $60 MonsterCable S-Video cable and the cheap S-Video cable that came with one of the players. There's a lot to be said for interference rejection as well as for proper phase balancing and shifting. As for gold midi cables, Tom, you must not be a performer. The cables themselves aren't gold, I'm sure, but the connectors are because they're finicky and plugged in/removed frequently (i.e. with every equipment change or new venue), and tracking down why the signals ain't working is way too much frustration on a performance (or any other) schedule. A smidge of gold is not just cheap, but effective, insurance. Of course, part of this religion for the best connectors still comes from the pre-digital audiophile world. Anybody remember "Tweak", a contact cleaner/optimizer used in the pre-gold era? Never tried it myself because the grunge/oxidation could be solved other ways such as swabbing with a qtip in alcohol and then never moving them again, but the problem it was solving was real: poor contacts on your RCA jacks really muddied the sound. This was before the mid-80s brought us yuppies with a technology for every problem you ever dreamed of. Now we need the internet to know that we have the problem, and then to find out that knowing about the problem is symptomatic of another, deeper, psychological problem. So maybe Dan is still indoctrinated by some Audio Cardinal from the distant past. (Dan, Tom's correct that the ground plane can be any conductive metal; the size matters more than the composition. When there appears to be a metal preference, odds are that it's either because the preferred one is THICKER than the other or it's solving some other problem better. For example, copper is a much better heat conductor than aluminum, so would cool better. Not all problems are electrical.) At 09:38 AM 10/18/2001 -0400, Tom Becker wrote: > > ... my home surround system uses only the best monster cables... > > ... gold midi cables... > > ... an RF modem preferring a copper base under it... > >God Bless the American consumer. If you think you can hear a >difference, then your money is well spent. Better Midi data, though? >Doubtful. > >Yes, an aluminum ground plane under an antenna will behave just as a >gold one will. In practical applications, the only advantage of one >metal over another is its ruggedness. In high-current applications like >broadcast transmission, conductivity can play a part but, even there, >silver is the king; gold is sometimes used as plating to protect the >silver, not because it is an electrically-better material. Gold is not >the best conductor but it is the least reactive; it won't oxidize so >connections will be, in general, more reliable with a very thin gold >plate. >Tom Becker >--... ...-- >GTBecker@RighTime_com GTBecker@Veriomail_com www.RighTime.com >The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: LCD precaution - andrewflys - Dec 30 15:06:00 2001
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Neil, Just been having similar sorts of the problems with an LCD+. After reading this thread, it became obvious (hopefully) that our LCD+ might have noise problem too - had very strange occurances of back lights going on and off, keypad modes becoming corrupted etc. Unfortunately for us, the latest LCD+ we fitted appeared to become internally corrupted through spurious data it picked up - we can no longer set graphic characters without the keypad becoming unusable - so it is a very real threat to the device itself as it would appear. I have just written to netmedia directly on the issue (of the unit becoming corrupted) so I will be interested to hear their response. Cheers, Andrew --- In basicx@y..., Neil Jepsen <jepsen@x> wrote: > No iyts not that Dan. I power the LCD off a separate off-board 12v > regulator. I am uisng the BX24 and LCD to control a rotational moulding > plant and there are 2 VSDs and a number of contactors in a neighbouring > cabinet, so I guess its noise. the BX24 has never malfunctioned but the > LCD is not that noise immune. I have taken noise precautions such as > separate power supplies for the BX24 and the other stuff; sheilded cable > on all LCD I/O; all BX24 I/O is buffered etc. > neil > Dan Bielecki wrote: > > > I had problems like this awhile back. Had to reconfigure the LCD at > > startup > > every time. It kept loosing its configuration intermittently...with > > no > > rhyme or reason. Keypad tags, custom characters, pad settings...you > > name > > it. > > > > One thing to keep in mind is that the LCD pulls about 200ma when the > > back > > light on (see manual). > > > > If you are powering the LCD right off the BX you could be exceeding > > the bx > > 100ma at times despite the fact that it works above what's stated in > > the BX > > hardware manual. I was having flaky garbage pop up with mine after > > adding a > > new device. > > That device was pulling 80ma at times and would cause the LCD to act > > strange > > due to the intermittent current drops. Those drops were corrupting > > the > > configuration settings. > > > > Since then I power both the LCD and the other device separately from > > the > > prime power source, not from the bx. Only my StampMEM ROM is chained > > off > > the BX now. It only pulls 10ma. (the on board bxRegulator is running > > a lot > > cooler now also....duhhhh !) > > > > .db. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Neil Jepsen [mailto:jepsen@x...] > > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 3:13 PM > > To: basicx@y... > > Subject: Re: [BasicX] LCD precaution > > > > > > I recently had a problem with an LCD and keypad, which turned out to > > be > > the keypad losing its keytags, and random values appearing in the > > keypad > > tag locations. Now as a precaution, I load new tags whenever the BX24 > > is > > booted, and from time to time in the main loop. > > > > viz > > call putqueuestr(ocom3,chr(20) & chr(49) & chr(50) & chr(51) & chr(48) > > & > > chr(52) _ > > & chr(53) & chr(54) & chr(48) & chr(55) &chr(56) & chr(57) & chr (48) _ > > > > & chr(73) & chr(48) & chr(72) & chr(48)) > > > > Note that I am using a 12key keypad, so the ABCD rows are missing and > > I > > have put zero (48) where they would be. > > > > neil > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > [Image] > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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