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Hi all, I have been happily working with BX35 but have recently run into an infuriating problem which I believe has nothing to do with the BX35, but I can't nail it down all the same. I happily wire up the BX35 on a breadboard as per spec (http://www.basicx.com/Products/BX-35/BX35_Schematic.gif) and power it up with a previously programmed EPROM that flashes pin 16. I power it off and on again and it _might_ decide to start. I reset it and away it goes, but if I cycle power, I have a 1 in 6 chance of it starting by itself. So.... to cut a long story short, I swap BX35s, EPROMs, Crystals, breadboards, capacitors, power source (1st time daisy chained off a BX24/BX35 development board, the second with its own 7805 regulator and 12 volt supply) and indeed my clothes, but still it continues to thumb its nose at me and not reliably start. More infuriating, if I run the Bx35 on the breadboard off the development board and throw a BX35 and EPROM onto the development board running the same program, pull out the power and replace it, the dev board one flashes 100% of the time, the breadboard one about 15% and usually needs a reset to get going. Ok here are the hints I have to work with: 1. I am using crystals from www.phanderson.com (bless Pete and his most excellent site). Now I can't logically explain why this would have anything to do with anything, but they are not the same as those that Netmedia ship (big arse ones, as opposed to the low profile type) and I haven't tried the netmedia ones (I don't currently have any). I have tried both 20p (phanderson) caps and 22p (netmedia) caps and was delighted to find they make no difference at all. 2. If I run my fingers over the chip, I can stop it cold by merely touching the ATN pin on the breadboard. This certainly doesn't happen on dev board (I might as well pat the cat, I'd get more reaction). I rather fancy I could smash it with a hammer and it would still keep working. The ATN line on the breadboard has the 100K resistors in place (as per above spec) but nothing external connected to it (I use a DLP USB module usually, but this is sitting forlornly on the table for now). 3. The program it runs uses the watchdog feature. Despite this, it still isn't able to start from power up without me doing a hard reset. It is hit miss as to whether it recovers from lockup when I touch the ATN line. 4. I have had this behavior on two different breadboards AND a pcb (which is where I first ran into the problem and started back on the breadboarding). Clearly I am doing something stupid. Has anyone else seen this behavior? I really do need to solve it - it is not acceptable to have the thing not come up on power up (particularly on a power cycle) and I have bashed my way through this for a week of weeknights without any luck. Sooo - any help from the groups, I'll be nominating you for Nobel peace prizes. If I don't hear from any other BX35ers out there, I am going to spend my hard earned cash on Pete's precooked BX35 setup and study its behavior closely. It is kind of humbling to do this (it is kind of like failing to get a lego licence), but it really has me beat. Happy Turkey eating to you and yours... Regards, Andrew

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Andrew, You are welcome to send me one of your setups and I will look at it. The crystals are by Dale from Mouser and I have probably sold 10,000 with no problem with them starting. In looking at the schematic you note, I am not sure it is all there. Perhaps my terminal doesn't have enough reolution. But, I also think there is an error associated with the ATN circuitry. There is a 10K pull down resistor to ground such that when the RS232 connection is open (disconnected) the ATN lead on the Atmel processor sees a good logic zero (110K to ground). I have tried to show this below. RS232 (term 4) ----------------- 100K ------- ATN | 10K | GRD Note that this is the circuitry on the NetMedia board. Best wishes. Peter H Anderson, http://www.phanderson.com --- In basicx@y..., "andrewflys" <andrewflys@y...> wrote: > Hi all, > > I have been happily working with BX35 but have recently run into an > infuriating problem which I believe has nothing to do with the BX35, > but I can't nail it down all the same. > > I happily wire up the BX35 on a breadboard as per spec > (http://www.basicx.com/Products/BX-35/BX35_Schematic.gif) and power > it up with a previously programmed EPROM that flashes pin 16. I > power it off and on again and it _might_ decide to start. I reset > it and away it goes, but if I cycle power, I have a 1 in 6 chance of > it starting by itself. > > So.... to cut a long story short, I swap BX35s, EPROMs, Crystals, > breadboards, capacitors, power source (1st time daisy chained off a > BX24/BX35 development board, the second with its own 7805 regulator > and 12 volt supply) and indeed my clothes, but still it continues to > thumb its nose at me and not reliably start. > > More infuriating, if I run the Bx35 on the breadboard off the > development board and throw a BX35 and EPROM onto the development > board running the same program, pull out the power and replace it, > the dev board one flashes 100% of the time, the breadboard one about > 15% and usually needs a reset to get going. > > Ok here are the hints I have to work with: > > 1. I am using crystals from www.phanderson.com (bless Pete and his > most excellent site). Now I can't logically explain why this would > have anything to do with anything, but they are not the same as > those that Netmedia ship (big arse ones, as opposed to the low > profile type) and I haven't tried the netmedia ones (I don't > currently have any). I have tried both 20p (phanderson) caps and > 22p (netmedia) caps and was delighted to find they make no > difference at all. > > 2. If I run my fingers over the chip, I can stop it cold by merely > touching the ATN pin on the breadboard. This certainly doesn't > happen on dev board (I might as well pat the cat, I'd get more > reaction). I rather fancy I could smash it with a hammer and it > would still keep working. The ATN line on the breadboard has the > 100K resistors in place (as per above spec) but nothing external > connected to it (I use a DLP USB module usually, but this is sitting > forlornly on the table for now). > > 3. The program it runs uses the watchdog feature. Despite this, it > still isn't able to start from power up without me doing a hard > reset. It is hit miss as to whether it recovers from lockup when I > touch the ATN line. > > 4. I have had this behavior on two different breadboards AND a pcb > (which is where I first ran into the problem and started back on the > breadboarding). > > Clearly I am doing something stupid. Has anyone else seen this > behavior? I really do need to solve it - it is not acceptable to > have the thing not come up on power up (particularly on a power > cycle) and I have bashed my way through this for a week of > weeknights without any luck. Sooo - any help from the groups, I'll > be nominating you for Nobel peace prizes. > > If I don't hear from any other BX35ers out there, I am going to > spend my hard earned cash on Pete's precooked BX35 setup and study > its behavior closely. It is kind of humbling to do this (it is kind > of like failing to get a lego licence), but it really has me beat. > > Happy Turkey eating to you and yours... > > Regards, > > Andrew

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Andrew, You are welcome to send me one of your setups and I will look at it. The crystals are by Dale from Mouser and I have probably sold 10,000 with no problem with them starting. In looking at the schematic you note, I am not sure it is all there. Perhaps my terminal doesn't have enough reolution. But, I also think there is an error associated with the ATN circuitry. There is a 10K pull down resistor to ground such that when the RS232 connection is open (disconnected) the ATN lead on the Atmel processor sees a good logic zero (110K to ground). I have tried to show this below. RS232 (term 4) ----------------- 100K ------- ATN | 10K | GRD Note that this is the circuitry on the NetMedia board. Best wishes. Peter H Anderson, http://www.phanderson.com --- In basicx@y..., "andrewflys" <andrewflys@y...> wrote: > Hi all, > > I have been happily working with BX35 but have recently run into an > infuriating problem which I believe has nothing to do with the BX35, > but I can't nail it down all the same. > > I happily wire up the BX35 on a breadboard as per spec > (http://www.basicx.com/Products/BX-35/BX35_Schematic.gif) and power > it up with a previously programmed EPROM that flashes pin 16. I > power it off and on again and it _might_ decide to start. I reset > it and away it goes, but if I cycle power, I have a 1 in 6 chance of > it starting by itself. > > So.... to cut a long story short, I swap BX35s, EPROMs, Crystals, > breadboards, capacitors, power source (1st time daisy chained off a > BX24/BX35 development board, the second with its own 7805 regulator > and 12 volt supply) and indeed my clothes, but still it continues to > thumb its nose at me and not reliably start. > > More infuriating, if I run the Bx35 on the breadboard off the > development board and throw a BX35 and EPROM onto the development > board running the same program, pull out the power and replace it, > the dev board one flashes 100% of the time, the breadboard one about > 15% and usually needs a reset to get going. > > Ok here are the hints I have to work with: > > 1. I am using crystals from www.phanderson.com (bless Pete and his > most excellent site). Now I can't logically explain why this would > have anything to do with anything, but they are not the same as > those that Netmedia ship (big arse ones, as opposed to the low > profile type) and I haven't tried the netmedia ones (I don't > currently have any). I have tried both 20p (phanderson) caps and > 22p (netmedia) caps and was delighted to find they make no > difference at all. > > 2. If I run my fingers over the chip, I can stop it cold by merely > touching the ATN pin on the breadboard. This certainly doesn't > happen on dev board (I might as well pat the cat, I'd get more > reaction). I rather fancy I could smash it with a hammer and it > would still keep working. The ATN line on the breadboard has the > 100K resistors in place (as per above spec) but nothing external > connected to it (I use a DLP USB module usually, but this is sitting > forlornly on the table for now). > > 3. The program it runs uses the watchdog feature. Despite this, it > still isn't able to start from power up without me doing a hard > reset. It is hit miss as to whether it recovers from lockup when I > touch the ATN line. > > 4. I have had this behavior on two different breadboards AND a pcb > (which is where I first ran into the problem and started back on the > breadboarding). > > Clearly I am doing something stupid. Has anyone else seen this > behavior? I really do need to solve it - it is not acceptable to > have the thing not come up on power up (particularly on a power > cycle) and I have bashed my way through this for a week of > weeknights without any luck. Sooo - any help from the groups, I'll > be nominating you for Nobel peace prizes. > > If I don't hear from any other BX35ers out there, I am going to > spend my hard earned cash on Pete's precooked BX35 setup and study > its behavior closely. It is kind of humbling to do this (it is kind > of like failing to get a lego licence), but it really has me beat. > > Happy Turkey eating to you and yours... > > Regards, > > Andrew

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Pete, Hey, I'll check out the ATN stuff. I feel a little guilty about sending stuff to you, so instead I will go ahead and buy the assembled one from you. If I still can't work it out, you bet your boots my breadboard will be flying its way north. Thanks for the offer and again thanks for being providing such useful BX resources. We may not always look like it, but we are very appreciative. Cheers, AP --- In basicx@y..., "pha555" <pha@p...> wrote: > Andrew, > > You are welcome to send me one of your setups and I will look at it. > > The crystals are by Dale from Mouser and I have probably sold 10,000 > with no problem with them starting. > > In looking at the schematic you note, I am not sure it is all there. > Perhaps my terminal doesn't have enough reolution. But, I also think > there is an error associated with the ATN circuitry. > > There is a 10K pull down resistor to ground such that when the RS232 > connection is open (disconnected) the ATN lead on the Atmel processor > sees a good logic zero (110K to ground). I have tried to show this > below. > > RS232 (term 4) ----------------- 100K ------- ATN > | > 10K > | > GRD > > Note that this is the circuitry on the NetMedia board. > > Best wishes. > > Peter H Anderson, http://www.phanderson.com > > --- In basicx@y..., "andrewflys" <andrewflys@y...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I have been happily working with BX35 but have recently run into an > > infuriating problem which I believe has nothing to do with the > BX35, > > but I can't nail it down all the same. > > > > I happily wire up the BX35 on a breadboard as per spec > > (http://www.basicx.com/Products/BX-35/BX35_Schematic.gif) and power > > it up with a previously programmed EPROM that flashes pin 16. I > > power it off and on again and it _might_ decide to start. I reset > > it and away it goes, but if I cycle power, I have a 1 in 6 chance > of > > it starting by itself. > > > > So.... to cut a long story short, I swap BX35s, EPROMs, Crystals, > > breadboards, capacitors, power source (1st time daisy chained off a > > BX24/BX35 development board, the second with its own 7805 regulator > > and 12 volt supply) and indeed my clothes, but still it continues > to > > thumb its nose at me and not reliably start. > > > > More infuriating, if I run the Bx35 on the breadboard off the > > development board and throw a BX35 and EPROM onto the development > > board running the same program, pull out the power and replace it, > > the dev board one flashes 100% of the time, the breadboard one > about > > 15% and usually needs a reset to get going. > > > > Ok here are the hints I have to work with: > > > > 1. I am using crystals from www.phanderson.com (bless Pete and his > > most excellent site). Now I can't logically explain why this would > > have anything to do with anything, but they are not the same as > > those that Netmedia ship (big arse ones, as opposed to the low > > profile type) and I haven't tried the netmedia ones (I don't > > currently have any). I have tried both 20p (phanderson) caps and > > 22p (netmedia) caps and was delighted to find they make no > > difference at all. > > > > 2. If I run my fingers over the chip, I can stop it cold by merely > > touching the ATN pin on the breadboard. This certainly doesn't > > happen on dev board (I might as well pat the cat, I'd get more > > reaction). I rather fancy I could smash it with a hammer and it > > would still keep working. The ATN line on the breadboard has the > > 100K resistors in place (as per above spec) but nothing external > > connected to it (I use a DLP USB module usually, but this is > sitting > > forlornly on the table for now). > > > > 3. The program it runs uses the watchdog feature. Despite this, > it > > still isn't able to start from power up without me doing a hard > > reset. It is hit miss as to whether it recovers from lockup when I > > touch the ATN line. > > > > 4. I have had this behavior on two different breadboards AND a pcb > > (which is where I first ran into the problem and started back on > the > > breadboarding). > > > > Clearly I am doing something stupid. Has anyone else seen this > > behavior? I really do need to solve it - it is not acceptable to > > have the thing not come up on power up (particularly on a power > > cycle) and I have bashed my way through this for a week of > > weeknights without any luck. Sooo - any help from the groups, I'll > > be nominating you for Nobel peace prizes. > > > > If I don't hear from any other BX35ers out there, I am going to > > spend my hard earned cash on Pete's precooked BX35 setup and study > > its behavior closely. It is kind of humbling to do this (it is > kind > > of like failing to get a lego licence), but it really has me beat. > > > > Happy Turkey eating to you and yours... > > > > Regards, > > > > Andrew

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Update: If I put a BX24 on the same board and power it, the BX35 starts every time. If I take it away, it won't start. I must live in the bermuda triangle. AP --- In basicx@y..., "andrewflys" <andrewflys@y...> wrote: > Pete, > > Hey, I'll check out the ATN stuff. I feel a little guilty about > sending stuff to you, so instead I will go ahead and buy the > assembled one from you. If I still can't work it out, you bet your > boots my breadboard will be flying its way north. > > Thanks for the offer and again thanks for being providing such > useful BX resources. We may not always look like it, but we are > very appreciative. > > Cheers, > > AP > --- In basicx@y..., "pha555" <pha@p...> wrote: > > Andrew, > > > > You are welcome to send me one of your setups and I will look at > it. > > > > The crystals are by Dale from Mouser and I have probably sold > 10,000 > > with no problem with them starting. > > > > In looking at the schematic you note, I am not sure it is all > there. > > Perhaps my terminal doesn't have enough reolution. But, I also > think > > there is an error associated with the ATN circuitry. > > > > There is a 10K pull down resistor to ground such that when the > RS232 > > connection is open (disconnected) the ATN lead on the Atmel > processor > > sees a good logic zero (110K to ground). I have tried to show > this > > below. > > > > RS232 (term 4) ----------------- 100K ------- ATN > > | > > 10K > > | > > GRD > > > > Note that this is the circuitry on the NetMedia board. > > > > Best wishes. > > > > Peter H Anderson, http://www.phanderson.com > > > > --- In basicx@y..., "andrewflys" <andrewflys@y...> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have been happily working with BX35 but have recently run into > an > > > infuriating problem which I believe has nothing to do with the > > BX35, > > > but I can't nail it down all the same. > > > > > > I happily wire up the BX35 on a breadboard as per spec > > > (http://www.basicx.com/Products/BX-35/BX35_Schematic.gif) and > power > > > it up with a previously programmed EPROM that flashes pin 16. > I > > > power it off and on again and it _might_ decide to start. I > reset > > > it and away it goes, but if I cycle power, I have a 1 in 6 > chance > > of > > > it starting by itself. > > > > > > So.... to cut a long story short, I swap BX35s, EPROMs, > Crystals, > > > breadboards, capacitors, power source (1st time daisy chained > off a > > > BX24/BX35 development board, the second with its own 7805 > regulator > > > and 12 volt supply) and indeed my clothes, but still it > continues > > to > > > thumb its nose at me and not reliably start. > > > > > > More infuriating, if I run the Bx35 on the breadboard off the > > > development board and throw a BX35 and EPROM onto the > development > > > board running the same program, pull out the power and replace > it, > > > the dev board one flashes 100% of the time, the breadboard one > > about > > > 15% and usually needs a reset to get going. > > > > > > Ok here are the hints I have to work with: > > > > > > 1. I am using crystals from www.phanderson.com (bless Pete and > his > > > most excellent site). Now I can't logically explain why this > would > > > have anything to do with anything, but they are not the same as > > > those that Netmedia ship (big arse ones, as opposed to the low > > > profile type) and I haven't tried the netmedia ones (I don't > > > currently have any). I have tried both 20p (phanderson) caps > and > > > 22p (netmedia) caps and was delighted to find they make no > > > difference at all. > > > > > > 2. If I run my fingers over the chip, I can stop it cold by > merely > > > touching the ATN pin on the breadboard. This certainly doesn't > > > happen on dev board (I might as well pat the cat, I'd get more > > > reaction). I rather fancy I could smash it with a hammer and it > > > would still keep working. The ATN line on the breadboard has > the > > > 100K resistors in place (as per above spec) but nothing external > > > connected to it (I use a DLP USB module usually, but this is > > sitting > > > forlornly on the table for now). > > > > > > 3. The program it runs uses the watchdog feature. Despite > this, > > it > > > still isn't able to start from power up without me doing a hard > > > reset. It is hit miss as to whether it recovers from lockup > when I > > > touch the ATN line. > > > > > > 4. I have had this behavior on two different breadboards AND a > pcb > > > (which is where I first ran into the problem and started back on > > the > > > breadboarding). > > > > > > Clearly I am doing something stupid. Has anyone else seen this > > > behavior? I really do need to solve it - it is not acceptable > to > > > have the thing not come up on power up (particularly on a power > > > cycle) and I have bashed my way through this for a week of > > > weeknights without any luck. Sooo - any help from the groups, > I'll > > > be nominating you for Nobel peace prizes. > > > > > > If I don't hear from any other BX35ers out there, I am going to > > > spend my hard earned cash on Pete's precooked BX35 setup and > study > > > its behavior closely. It is kind of humbling to do this (it is > > kind > > > of like failing to get a lego licence), but it really has me > beat. > > > > > > Happy Turkey eating to you and yours... > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Andrew

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Update: If I put a BX24 on the same board and power it, the BX35 starts every time. If I take it away, it won't start. I must live in the bermuda triangle. AP --- In basicx@y..., "andrewflys" <andrewflys@y...> wrote: > Pete, > > Hey, I'll check out the ATN stuff. I feel a little guilty about > sending stuff to you, so instead I will go ahead and buy the > assembled one from you. If I still can't work it out, you bet your > boots my breadboard will be flying its way north. > > Thanks for the offer and again thanks for being providing such > useful BX resources. We may not always look like it, but we are > very appreciative. > > Cheers, > > AP > --- In basicx@y..., "pha555" <pha@p...> wrote: > > Andrew, > > > > You are welcome to send me one of your setups and I will look at > it. > > > > The crystals are by Dale from Mouser and I have probably sold > 10,000 > > with no problem with them starting. > > > > In looking at the schematic you note, I am not sure it is all > there. > > Perhaps my terminal doesn't have enough reolution. But, I also > think > > there is an error associated with the ATN circuitry. > > > > There is a 10K pull down resistor to ground such that when the > RS232 > > connection is open (disconnected) the ATN lead on the Atmel > processor > > sees a good logic zero (110K to ground). I have tried to show > this > > below. > > > > RS232 (term 4) ----------------- 100K ------- ATN > > | > > 10K > > | > > GRD > > > > Note that this is the circuitry on the NetMedia board. > > > > Best wishes. > > > > Peter H Anderson, http://www.phanderson.com > > > > --- In basicx@y..., "andrewflys" <andrewflys@y...> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have been happily working with BX35 but have recently run into > an > > > infuriating problem which I believe has nothing to do with the > > BX35, > > > but I can't nail it down all the same. > > > > > > I happily wire up the BX35 on a breadboard as per spec > > > (http://www.basicx.com/Products/BX-35/BX35_Schematic.gif) and > power > > > it up with a previously programmed EPROM that flashes pin 16. > I > > > power it off and on again and it _might_ decide to start. I > reset > > > it and away it goes, but if I cycle power, I have a 1 in 6 > chance > > of > > > it starting by itself. > > > > > > So.... to cut a long story short, I swap BX35s, EPROMs, > Crystals, > > > breadboards, capacitors, power source (1st time daisy chained > off a > > > BX24/BX35 development board, the second with its own 7805 > regulator > > > and 12 volt supply) and indeed my clothes, but still it > continues > > to > > > thumb its nose at me and not reliably start. > > > > > > More infuriating, if I run the Bx35 on the breadboard off the > > > development board and throw a BX35 and EPROM onto the > development > > > board running the same program, pull out the power and replace > it, > > > the dev board one flashes 100% of the time, the breadboard one > > about > > > 15% and usually needs a reset to get going. > > > > > > Ok here are the hints I have to work with: > > > > > > 1. I am using crystals from www.phanderson.com (bless Pete and > his > > > most excellent site). Now I can't logically explain why this > would > > > have anything to do with anything, but they are not the same as > > > those that Netmedia ship (big arse ones, as opposed to the low > > > profile type) and I haven't tried the netmedia ones (I don't > > > currently have any). I have tried both 20p (phanderson) caps > and > > > 22p (netmedia) caps and was delighted to find they make no > > > difference at all. > > > > > > 2. If I run my fingers over the chip, I can stop it cold by > merely > > > touching the ATN pin on the breadboard. This certainly doesn't > > > happen on dev board (I might as well pat the cat, I'd get more > > > reaction). I rather fancy I could smash it with a hammer and it > > > would still keep working. The ATN line on the breadboard has > the > > > 100K resistors in place (as per above spec) but nothing external > > > connected to it (I use a DLP USB module usually, but this is > > sitting > > > forlornly on the table for now). > > > > > > 3. The program it runs uses the watchdog feature. Despite > this, > > it > > > still isn't able to start from power up without me doing a hard > > > reset. It is hit miss as to whether it recovers from lockup > when I > > > touch the ATN line. > > > > > > 4. I have had this behavior on two different breadboards AND a > pcb > > > (which is where I first ran into the problem and started back on > > the > > > breadboarding). > > > > > > Clearly I am doing something stupid. Has anyone else seen this > > > behavior? I really do need to solve it - it is not acceptable > to > > > have the thing not come up on power up (particularly on a power > > > cycle) and I have bashed my way through this for a week of > > > weeknights without any luck. Sooo - any help from the groups, > I'll > > > be nominating you for Nobel peace prizes. > > > > > > If I don't hear from any other BX35ers out there, I am going to > > > spend my hard earned cash on Pete's precooked BX35 setup and > study > > > its behavior closely. It is kind of humbling to do this (it is > > kind > > > of like failing to get a lego licence), but it really has me > beat. > > > > > > Happy Turkey eating to you and yours... > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Andrew

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