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Hello All
=A0
I am new to programming. I am working with a ATMEL MEGA32 chip. What would =
a good (easy or un-complicated for us non programmers) program to use. WinA=
vr, Avrstudio or something else??
=A0
Thanks

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Ok, I guess you are making a confusion here. WINAVAR is the compiler + LIBS=
,
so you would need it for sure. AVR studio is a free IDE, a program that
helps you to organize your source files and project, and also to send your
programs to the atmega32.
So I recomend that you use both those programs, that's what I do and also
many people.

[]=B4s,

- Uderman
http://www.temadigital.com.br/

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:31 AM, gerald horn wrote:

> Hello All
>
> I am new to programming. I am working with a ATMEL MEGA32 chip. What woul=
d
> a good (easy or un-complicated for us non programmers) program to use.
> WinAvr, Avrstudio or something else??
>
> Thanks
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>=20=20
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

I like to write the programs in assembler and use AVR Studio to program
them. I have an STK500 for the programming.

You can use any programming language you choose (assembly language, compile=
r
or whatever) as long as it produces a hex source file that AVR Studio can
program the chip with.
I got a Willem programmer board on eBay recently and I think it will do a
few AVR chips. But I got it mainly because I needed to program a few EPROM'=
s
for a project and my old EPROM programmer became defunct and the cmopany
went out of business (Needhams).

Zack
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Felipe Uderman w=
rote:

> Ok, I guess you are making a confusion here. WINAVAR is the compiler +
> LIBS,
> so you would need it for sure. AVR studio is a free IDE, a program that
> helps you to organize your source files and project, and also to send you=
r
> programs to the atmega32.
> So I recomend that you use both those programs, that's what I do and also
> many people.
>
> []=B4s,
>
> - Uderman
> http://www.temadigital.com.br/
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:31 AM, gerald horn oo.com>>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hello All
> >
> > I am new to programming. I am working with a ATMEL MEGA32 chip. What
> would
> > a good (easy or un-complicated for us non programmers) program to use.
> > WinAvr, Avrstudio or something else??
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>=20=20
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

The best method (if you are using avrstudio to develop code) is to run an
atmel supplied JTAG programmer. Ie either a jtagice mkII or a dragon.
(jtagice mkII is the expensive option and does all 8 bit AVR chips, and is
upgraded as new chips are made available. dragon is updated regularly too, =
I
think - but is code space limited, so you can't program all AVRs with it...
mega32 should be just fine though I think)

(Another option, is to use an STK500 dev board, with serial programming
interface built in - this is slower and gives way less debug options than
JTAG, but you get a PCB that takes just a chip, and has prototyping area,
too)

The avrstudio/jtag system will work pretty much seamlessly, and you'll be
able to compile/program/debug from the same window as you develop the code.

Avrstudio allows development in assembler by default, and also in C if you
install the winavr GCC package.
Good luck and have fun,
Julian

-----Original Message-----
From: a...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:a...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
gerald horn
Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2009 2:32 PM
To: a...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AVR club] programmimg platform

Hello All
=A0
I am new to programming. I am working with a ATMEL MEGA32 chip. What would =
a
good (easy or un-complicated for us non programmers) program to use. WinAvr=
,
Avrstudio or something else??
=A0
Thanks

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

That is something very respectful!!! congratulations!=A0 Any info you would=
like to share I am all ears and eyes.=A0 Thanks ahead of time.

--- On Tue, 7/14/09, Zack Widup wrote:
From: Zack Widup
Subject: Re: [AVR club] programmimg platform
To: a...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:34 AM

I like to write the programs in assembler and use AVR Studio to program
them. I have an STK500 for the programming.

You can use any programming language you choose (assembly language, compile=
r
or whatever) as long as it produces a hex source file that AVR Studio can
program the chip with.
I got a Willem programmer board on eBay recently and I think it will do a
few AVR chips. But I got it mainly because I needed to program a few EPROM'=
s
for a project and my old EPROM programmer became defunct and the cmopany
went out of business (Needhams).

Zack

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 7:57 AM, Felipe Uderman =
wrote:

> Ok, I guess you are making a confusion here. WINAVAR is the compiler +
> LIBS,
> so you would need it for sure. AVR studio is a free IDE, a program that
> helps you to organize your source files and project, and also to send you=
r
> programs to the atmega32.
> So I recomend that you use both those programs, that's what I do and also
> many people.
>
> []=B4s,
>
> - Uderman
> http://www.temadigi tal.com.br/
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:31 AM, gerald horn hoo. com>>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hello All
> >
> > I am new to programming. I am working with a ATMEL MEGA32 chip. What
> would
> > a good (easy or un-complicated for us non programmers) program to use.
> > WinAvr, Avrstudio or something else??
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>=20
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

=20=20=20=20=20=20

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Following in the wake of the previous responses...

Most, and may be all the C and other compilers, convert your code to assemb=
ly. Then it is sent to the Assembler supplied by Atmel in AVRStudio which c=
onverts it to machine code. So you have=20

C (or other high level language) code -> assembly code -> machine code

That said...

You want a language that is easy for non-programmers to use. The Basic comp=
iler Bascom-AVR comes to mind.

http://www.mcselec.com/index.php?option=3Dcom_docman&task=3Dcat_view&gid=3D=
99&Itemid=3D54

BASCOM-AVR Demo Version - 4K limit
http://www.mcselec.com/index.php?option=3Dcom_docman&task=3Ddoc_download&gi=
d=3D139&Itemid=3D54

If it is C you are after CodeVisionAVR has a CodeWizard. With the CodeWizar=
d you select via menues the micro, what the ports do (In/Out) and the CW wi=
ll set up the code so most of the chip initialization is do for you. A grea=
t feature for newbies and old hats. They have a demo version also
http://www.hpinfotech.ro/html/download.htm

If you want a completely free C compiler it is WinAVR. But for newbies this=
is the most difficult way to go.

Whichever way you go, you would probably be better served if start out with=
AVRStudio. May be all you will learn from that is how to turn the LEDs on =
or off or input a switch state, open or closed, and have an LED follow the =
state. But that will be "one giant step" for a newbie.

I believe I would start with AVRStudio, the CodeVisionAVR and/or Bascom-AVR=
depending if you are into C or Basic.

Note: There is a lot more support for AVRStudio and C than Basic.

Mike
--- In a...@yahoogroups.com, gerald horn wrote:
>
> Hello All
> =A0
> I am new to programming. I am working with a ATMEL MEGA32 chip. What woul=
d a good (easy or un-complicated for us non programmers) program to use. Wi=
nAvr, Avrstudio or something else??
> =A0
> Thanks
>=20
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

The problem I have run into with most of the free or inexpensive C compilers
is that they generate code which is much larger than that I would get
by writing it in assembler, due to redundundundancy. :-)

I've been told that the better C compilers don't do this but I haven't tried
them yet.

Zack

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:49 AM, brewski922 wrote:

> Following in the wake of the previous responses...
>
> Most, and may be all the C and other compilers, convert your code to
> assembly. Then it is sent to the Assembler supplied by Atmel in AVRStudio
> which converts it to machine code. So you have
>
> C (or other high level language) code -> assembly code -> machine code
>
> That said...
>
> You want a language that is easy for non-programmers to use. The Basic
> compiler Bascom-AVR comes to mind.
> http://www.mcselec.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=99&Itemid=54
>
> BASCOM-AVR Demo Version - 4K limit
>
> http://www.mcselec.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=139&Itemid=54
>
> If it is C you are after CodeVisionAVR has a CodeWizard. With the
> CodeWizard you select via menues the micro, what the ports do (In/Out) and
> the CW will set up the code so most of the chip initialization is do for
> you. A great feature for newbies and old hats. They have a demo version also
> http://www.hpinfotech.ro/html/download.htm
>
> If you want a completely free C compiler it is WinAVR. But for newbies this
> is the most difficult way to go.
>
> Whichever way you go, you would probably be better served if start out with
> AVRStudio. May be all you will learn from that is how to turn the LEDs on or
> off or input a switch state, open or closed, and have an LED follow the
> state. But that will be "one giant step" for a newbie.
>
> I believe I would start with AVRStudio, the CodeVisionAVR and/or Bascom-AVR
> depending if you are into C or Basic.
>
> Note: There is a lot more support for AVRStudio and C than Basic.
>
> Mike
>
> --- In a...@yahoogroups.com , gerald horn
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello All
> >
> > I am new to programming. I am working with a ATMEL MEGA32 chip. What
> would a good (easy or un-complicated for us non programmers) program to use.
> WinAvr, Avrstudio or something else??
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 01:00:49PM -0500, Zack Widup wrote:
> The problem I have run into with most of the free or inexpensive C
> compilers is that they generate code which is much larger than that I
> would get by writing it in assembler, due to redundundundancy. :-)
>
> I've been told that the better C compilers don't do this but I haven't
> tried them yet.

When comparing a function written in C vs handcrafted assembly, the
assembly is almost always smaller and faster.

When comparing entire projects written in C vs same in assembly, C is
smaller, faster, and faster to market than assembly. The larger the
project the bigger the advantage of C. Mostly due to the ability to
rearrange, restructure, and reuse code in C.

avr-gcc generates very good code for the AVR.

--
David Kelly N4HHE, d...@HiWAAY.net
========================================================================
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Thanks David! I'll have to get avr-gcc.

Zack

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 1:15 PM, David Kelly wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 01:00:49PM -0500, Zack Widup wrote:
> > The problem I have run into with most of the free or inexpensive C
> > compilers is that they generate code which is much larger than that I
> > would get by writing it in assembler, due to redundundundancy. :-)
> >
> > I've been told that the better C compilers don't do this but I haven't
> > tried them yet.
>
> When comparing a function written in C vs handcrafted assembly, the
> assembly is almost always smaller and faster.
>
> When comparing entire projects written in C vs same in assembly, C is
> smaller, faster, and faster to market than assembly. The larger the
> project the bigger the advantage of C. Mostly due to the ability to
> rearrange, restructure, and reuse code in C.
>
> avr-gcc generates very good code for the AVR.
>
> --
> David Kelly N4HHE, d...@HiWAAY.net
> ========================================================================
> Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

--- In a...@yahoogroups.com, Zack Widup wrote:
>
> The problem I have run into with most of the free or inexpensive C compilers
> is that they generate code which is much larger than that I would get
> by writing it in assembler, due to redundundundancy. :-)
>
> I've been told that the better C compilers don't do this but I haven't tried
> them yet.
>
> Zack
>

Refering to Atmel AVRs Gerald ask, "What would a good (easy or un-complicated for us non programmers) program to use."

I gave him some that I feel are good for newbies. Starting out I doubt code size and speed of execution is going to be the big concern. Oh, Image Craft is probably a better compiler but starting out at almost $400 and going up to over $800 is most likely not the price range Gerald wants to start at. Then we have the IAR. I can even find a price on that one. I sure the Ferrari Testarosa is one of the finest automobiles made but with the 1995 price of over $200,000 is more care that I can afford or need. But I' sure lots of women would like to go out to dinner with me, or you, in one of them. Anyway...

I don't know what your or Gerald's applications are but probably code size and speed is not going to be a issue with the compliers and assemblers I mentioned. Now if you are into nuclear physics are you. If you are you should know that the AVR in many apps is going to be too slow "period".

Oh yes, should code size get too large you can always hand a memory chip off the side of the AVR.

Mike

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Yes, they keep coming out with newer chips that have more memory so that
isn't so much a concern anymore. I recall once upon a time writing a program
for a PIC 12C509 that used all but two of the available memory locations.
And that was in assembly language.

Very rarely speed is the issue. Trying to do DSP the hard way in real-time
with FIR filters or FFT's requires the fastest program you can execute.

But for just about everything I do, memory or speed isn't the issue.

Zack
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 10:08 PM, brewski922 wrote:

> --- In a...@yahoogroups.com , Zack Widup
> wrote:
> >
> > The problem I have run into with most of the free or inexpensive C
> compilers
> > is that they generate code which is much larger than that I would get
> > by writing it in assembler, due to redundundundancy. :-)
> >
> > I've been told that the better C compilers don't do this but I haven't
> tried
> > them yet.
> >
> > Zack
> > Refering to Atmel AVRs Gerald ask, "What would a good (easy or
> un-complicated for us non programmers) program to use."
>
> I gave him some that I feel are good for newbies. Starting out I doubt code
> size and speed of execution is going to be the big concern. Oh, Image Craft
> is probably a better compiler but starting out at almost $400 and going up
> to over $800 is most likely not the price range Gerald wants to start at.
> Then we have the IAR. I can even find a price on that one. I sure the
> Ferrari Testarosa is one of the finest automobiles made but with the 1995
> price of over $200,000 is more care that I can afford or need. But I' sure
> lots of women would like to go out to dinner with me, or you, in one of
> them. Anyway...
>
> I don't know what your or Gerald's applications are but probably code size
> and speed is not going to be a issue with the compliers and assemblers I
> mentioned. Now if you are into nuclear physics are you. If you are you
> should know that the AVR in many apps is going to be too slow "period".
>
> Oh yes, should code size get too large you can always hand a memory chip
> off the side of the AVR.
>
> Mike
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

"redundundundancy", nice word. Not in the dictionary but I think I
understand ;^)

/Janne

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 03:08:23 -0000
brewski922 wrote:

> --- In a...@yahoogroups.com, Zack Widup wrote:
> >
> > The problem I have run into with most of the free or inexpensive C
> > compilers is that they generate code which is much larger than that
> > I would get by writing it in assembler, due to
> > redundundundancy. :-)
> >
> > I've been told that the better C compilers don't do this but I
> > haven't tried them yet.
> >
> > Zack
> > Refering to Atmel AVRs Gerald ask, "What would a good (easy or
> un-complicated for us non programmers) program to use."
>
> I gave him some that I feel are good for newbies. Starting out I
> doubt code size and speed of execution is going to be the big
> concern. Oh, Image Craft is probably a better compiler but starting
> out at almost $400 and going up to over $800 is most likely not the
> price range Gerald wants to start at. Then we have the IAR. I can
> even find a price on that one. I sure the Ferrari Testarosa is one of
> the finest automobiles made but with the 1995 price of over $200,000
> is more care that I can afford or need. But I' sure lots of women
> would like to go out to dinner with me, or you, in one of them.
> Anyway...
>
> I don't know what your or Gerald's applications are but probably code
> size and speed is not going to be a issue with the compliers and
> assemblers I mentioned. Now if you are into nuclear physics are you.
> If you are you should know that the AVR in many apps is going to be
> too slow "period".
>
> Oh yes, should code size get too large you can always hand a memory
> chip off the side of the AVR.
>
> Mike
>
>
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Yes, I like to play with words sometimes!
:-)

Zack

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 1:30 PM, wrote:

> "redundundundancy", nice word. Not in the dictionary but I think I
> understand ;^)
>
> /Janne
>
> On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 03:08:23 -0000
> brewski922 > wrote:
>
> > --- In a...@yahoogroups.com , Zack Widup
> wrote:
> > >
> > > The problem I have run into with most of the free or inexpensive C
> > > compilers is that they generate code which is much larger than that
> > > I would get by writing it in assembler, due to
> > > redundundundancy. :-)
> > >
> > > I've been told that the better C compilers don't do this but I
> > > haven't tried them yet.
> > >
> > > Zack
> > >
> >
> > Refering to Atmel AVRs Gerald ask, "What would a good (easy or
> > un-complicated for us non programmers) program to use."
> >
> > I gave him some that I feel are good for newbies. Starting out I
> > doubt code size and speed of execution is going to be the big
> > concern. Oh, Image Craft is probably a better compiler but starting
> > out at almost $400 and going up to over $800 is most likely not the
> > price range Gerald wants to start at. Then we have the IAR. I can
> > even find a price on that one. I sure the Ferrari Testarosa is one of
> > the finest automobiles made but with the 1995 price of over $200,000
> > is more care that I can afford or need. But I' sure lots of women
> > would like to go out to dinner with me, or you, in one of them.
> > Anyway...
> >
> > I don't know what your or Gerald's applications are but probably code
> > size and speed is not going to be a issue with the compliers and
> > assemblers I mentioned. Now if you are into nuclear physics are you.
> > If you are you should know that the AVR in many apps is going to be
> > too slow "period".
> >
> > Oh yes, should code size get too large you can always hand a memory
> > chip off the side of the AVR.
> >
> > Mike
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of avrclub -- send a blank email to avrclub-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )